Engine oil dyno test BPenn & Driven

[900HP]

Last week, Dieselgeek and I dyno tested my 6.0 LS that we are going to use for the AMP EFI seminars. As part of our testing we ran the engine with 3 different oils and tried to duplicate operating conditions as close as possible. The results are quite interesting.

First, we broke it in and tuned it with Brad Penn 30wt break in oil. Then we changed oil to Driven HR 10w-40 as was recommended to me for best hydraulic lifter performance. After the Driven, we put Brad Penn 10w30 in it and duplicated the test again.

There were multiple pulls with each oil and each pull did the same thing, picking up power until oil temp reached 200º or so.

The engine is a stock-architecture 6.0 with un-ported L92 heads on it with a Jones Racing Cams hydraulic roller, noting too special so don't expect huge power numbers from it. We will hit it with some nitrous during the classes so the students can experience some nitrous tuning.

Here is a graph with the results from the 3 oils. All 3 oils are on this graph.

[900HP]

This is the engine. After the oil tests, we let it cool down and ran it out the back door so to speak.

[statsystems]

The data is a bit suspect. You should only test oils in an A-B-A with two oils. It takes a total of 27 pulls. 3 sets of 3 pulls on each oil. You will have residual A oil during the B test and it can skew the results either way. I'm not saying that the outcome will change, but most likely, the second oil was being influenced by the first oil and the third oil was was influenced by the first and second.

[900HP]

The data is a bit suspect. You should only test oils in an A-B-A with two oils. It takes a total of 27 pulls. 3 sets of 3 pulls on each oil. You will have residual A oil during the B test and it can skew the results either way. I'm not saying that the outcome will change, but most likely, the second oil was being influenced by the first oil and the third oil was was influenced by the first and second.

a full 6 quart change on each oil, maybe 1/2 quart left in the engine. The results are good enough to show that with these 3 oils there are no appreciable differences between these three oils on an average built street engine. Just showing there isn't a magical 15hp in oil for a hyd roller engine like this one, that's all. If you want to split hairs over 2 hp go for it.

[novadude]

Is a dyno pull even repeatable to 2 hp? Anything less than 5 hp would = "no change" in my opinion.

[statsystems]

The data is a bit suspect. You should only test oils in an A-B-A with two oils. It takes a total of 27 pulls. 3 sets of 3 pulls on each oil. You will have residual A oil during the B test and it can skew the results either way. I'm not saying that the outcome will change, but most likely, the second oil was being influenced by the first oil and the third oil was was influenced by the first and second.

a full 6 quart change on each oil, maybe 1/2 quart left in the engine. The results are good enough to show that with these 3 oils there are no appreciable differences between these three oils on an average built street engine. Just showing there isn't a magical 15hp in oil for a hyd roller engine like this one, that's all. If you want to split hairs over 2 hp go for it.

No need to get pissy. I just pointed out that you have residual oil. You also have the additive package that remains behind.

I have seen really shitty oils look good for 3-4 pulls after running the B test oil. That what I meant when I said your testing is suspect. You ran three oils almost back to back. That will make every oil you tested look average. Which is the exact result you have.


It's a GIGO thing.

[900HP]

The data is a bit suspect. You should only test oils in an A-B-A with two oils. It takes a total of 27 pulls. 3 sets of 3 pulls on each oil. You will have residual A oil during the B test and it can skew the results either way. I'm not saying that the outcome will change, but most likely, the second oil was being influenced by the first oil and the third oil was was influenced by the first and second.

a full 6 quart change on each oil, maybe 1/2 quart left in the engine. The results are good enough to show that with these 3 oils there are no appreciable differences between these three oils on an average built street engine. Just showing there isn't a magical 15hp in oil for a hyd roller engine like this one, that's all. If you want to split hairs over 2 hp go for it.

No need to get pissy. I just pointed out that you have residual oil. You also have the additive package that remains behind.

I have seen really shitty oils look good for 3-4 pulls after running the B test oil. That what I meant when I said your testing is suspect. You ran three oils almost back to back. That will make every oil you tested look average. Which is the exact result you have.


It's a GIGO thing.

Not pissy at all. Both oil changes resulted in a loss of around 10hp after the oil change until temperatures were normalized, then the power was the same as before. I understand what you are saying, I'm just saying that if I had changed the oil 3 more times with the same flavor and repeated the tests, I don't think it would've changed 15hp, maybe 1or2. My point is there isn't magical horsepower in a bottle for the average street engine, at least not in the oils tested. If there was it would've shown up despite some residual left-over oil.

[MadBill]

Yes, do you really think that running 27 tests, or even 127, will produce drastically different results? (other than a three thousand dollar or more bill for materials and dyno time)

[statsystems]

Yes, do you really think that running 27 tests, or even 127, will produce drastically different results? (other than a three thousand dollar or more bill for materials and dyno time)

No. What I am saying is you will skew the results doing it the way the OP did it. I have done it many times. Run a shit oil for the A test and then a good oil for the B test. When you go back to the A oil it will pretty much lay curve on the graph exactly like the B oil for 3-4 pulls until you use up the residual oil (it's the additive package that makes HP) and then the A oil will test like the A oil.

I stand by what I posted. That is exactly why the OP got the results he posted. Don't take my word for it. Call LAT or Lucas and see what they say about testing three oils with 3 pulls each.

[900HP]

Yes, do you really think that running 27 tests, or even 127, will produce drastically different results? (other than a three thousand dollar or more bill for materials and dyno time)

No. What I am saying is you will skew the results doing it the way the OP did it. I have done it many times. Run a shit oil for the A test and then a good oil for the B test. When you go back to the A oil it will pretty much lay curve on the graph exactly like the B oil for 3-4 pulls until you use up the residual oil (it's the additive package that makes HP) and then the A oil will test like the A oil.

I stand by what I posted. That is exactly why the OP got the results he posted. Don't take my word for it. Call LAT or Lucas and see what they say about testing three oils with 3 pulls each.

5 pulls on each oil fwiw...............

[novadude]

(it's the additive package that makes HP)

I'd need to see some proof of this statement, 'cause I ain't buying it. I think viscosity has way more to do with making (freeing up) hp than the additive package. If you are seeing primarily hydrodynamic lubrication and not running it dry, I don't see where the additive package make that much difference, since every oil more-or-less contains varying amounts of similar compounds in the add pack.

Of course you do get mixed boundry and hydrodynamic lubrication in every real world engine, but I think there is more power in going from 20W-50 to 0W-20 than in any additive package you'll find in OTC oils.

I believe that 900hp results are real and valid.

[user-612937456]

I see this as what I already understand there is no real difference in performance of similar grades oil I like the term magic in a bottle LOL 2-3 HP difference is digital noise like if you ran 7 pulls on the same oil same engine same temp and same baro 2 different days there will be noise and the curve will not be like a fingerprint there will be fluctuation of noise. Keep up the good work guys busting the myth that armsoul or kings purple or whatever superior marketing team claims that there Magic oil in a bottle claims to make magical HP with there magical statement like "These are not the droids you are looking for" and "our oil has liquid ball bearings" LOL

and I dont think you will see 15 HP difference between 0W20 and 20W50 either maybe a little more than noise but still a minute difference.

[statsystems]

(it's the additive package that makes HP)

I'd need to see some proof of this statement, 'cause I ain't buying it. I think viscosity has way more to do with making (freeing up) hp than the additive package. If you are seeing primarily hydrodynamic lubrication and not running it dry, I don't see where the additive package make that much difference, since every oil more-or-less contains varying amounts of similar compounds in the add pack.

Of course you do get mixed boundry and hydrodynamic lubrication in every real world engine, but I think there is more power in going from 20W-50 to 0W-20 than in any additive package you'll find in OTC oils.

I believe that 900hp results are real and valid.

Believe what you want. If you think that HP comes from viscosity only, you'd be wrong. The additive package is what makes HP, or loses it. As an example, valvoline VR1 is a HP killer because of its additive package.

The OP's test is a GIGO deal that has little to no validity. You should spend some time on research. It's worth more that an improperly constructed dyno test.

[statsystems]

I see this as what I already understand there is no real difference in performance of similar grades oil I like the term magic in a bottle LOL 2-3 HP difference is digital noise like if you ran 7 pulls on the same oil same engine same temp and same baro 2 different days there will be noise and the curve will not be like a fingerprint there will be fluctuation of noise. Keep up the good work guys busting the myth that armsoul or kings purple or whatever superior marketing team claims that there Magic oil in a bottle claims to make magical HP with there magical statement like "These are not the droids you are looking for" and "our oil has liquid ball bearings" LOL

and I dont think you will see 15 HP difference between 0W20 and 20W50 either maybe a little more than noise but still a minute difference.

Geezus, the test you are flouting is not better than the tests you are praising.

[novadude]

You should spend some time on research. It's worth more that an improperly constructed dyno test.

You mean like reading propaganda from JGR, Lucas, and other people that stand to profit from peddling snake oil? That kind of research?

If you are telling me additives have more impact on power that viscosity, I don't think I'm gonna believe anything else you tell me about oils. I can't see where 5 pulls on each oil in 900hp test is a GIGO test, and I also don't believe that any dyno is going to pick up more than a statistically insignificant < 5 hp between 2 oils of the same viscosity. I'd love to see your real scientific data that proves the contrary. Please share with us so we can all learn something.