how to improve your valve seat work

[MotionMachine]

I just had to comment on my recent addition to my collection of Lloyd Riley's (Donc) stone holders. Super accurate, light weight and tight on the pilot with an adjustable positive stop. He even makes sure that the threads are tight on the stones themselves. Great investment if you care about the quality of your work.

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[groberts101]

old school.. I like it. And the smooth body's sure are easier on the hands when dampening speeds for those final finishing stone spins. My BD holders are fluted and you quickly learn to check for burrs before handling or to make damned sure you have gloves on beforehand.

What style head do they take? They have a BD version?

[MotionMachine]

I think Lloyd will make you any guide top size you need. Mine are Siuox and Sunnen.

[Schurkey]

I just had to comment on my recent addition to my collection of Lloyd Riley's (Donc) stone holders.

Contact info?

[PackardV8]

Might be a good lead-in to a poll as to how we're doing seat and guide work today. Someone who knows how-to and cares, maybe divide it into stones and what machine manufacturer vs. cutters and what machine manufacturer.

[groberts101]

Might be a good lead-in to a poll as to how we're doing seat and guide work today. Someone who knows how-to and cares, maybe divide it into stones and what machine manufacturer vs. cutters and what machine manufacturer.

I don't think there are many pro shops using stones any more these days. Only reason I haven't invested in carbide is that I have so much damned money wrapped up in the B&D kit that Goodson sold me almost 30 years ago. It's just too time consuming and creates more variables for someone who doesn't have the patience. Goes pretty quick with multiple pilots, stones and holders and final product can turn out damned nice though. But.. even with practice I still lap all my valves with 1,500-2,000 grit compound to check and finalize my work.

[jake197000]

ive got a couple of doncs holders and just love them.im low production and use 3-d cutters and stones depends on the job.i indicate each pilot when using cutters so im slow.dont have a high doller seat and guide machine,i use the mill.can get good results with both.gonna order a couple more from donc.i wish the spline drive was a little deeper though.would recommend them highly.

[user-9274568]

I used my Lloyd stone holder on every seat I cut with my VGS.

I've stoned more valve jobs in the last year that I had in the last 10.

[k-star]

I have the second one he made ( I believe). For anyone that does stone work they are priceless.

Great product and Lloyd really knows his stuff.

[donc]

ive got a couple of doncs holders and just love them.im low production and use 3-d cutters and stones depends on the job.i indicate each pilot when using cutters so im slow.dont have a high doller seat and guide machine,i use the mill.can get good results with both.gonna order a couple more from donc.i wish the spline drive was a little deeper though.would recommend them highly.

Never had anyone wanting deeper splines , but no problem, when you order just mention how much longer and it will be taken care of.

[donc]

I just had to comment on my recent addition to my collection of Lloyd Riley's (Donc) stone holders.

Contact info?

203-240-1486 est

[MotionMachine]

I cut all my seats on a VGS20 and love it's versatility, especially like the digital toolsetter that you dial in the diameter of the 45. But hitting the 45 with a fine stone after cutting with one of Lloyd's holders will find any misalignment and improve on the finish. I feel that the investment in his holders is a no brainer. There are times when cost should not be a consideration when it's something as important as guide/seal alignment.

[Cubic_Cleveland]

I cut all my seats on a VGS20 and love it's versatility, especially like the digital toolsetter that you dial in the diameter of the 45. But hitting the 45 with a fine stone after cutting with one of Lloyd's holders will find any misalignment and improve on the finish. I feel that the investment in his holders is a no brainer. There are times when cost should not be a consideration when it's something as important as guide/seal alignment.

Excellent advice

[Frankshaft]

lol, I find it comical. Not directed to the original poster, but using finish stones after cutting seats on the machine. I have been HARPING this since at least 2004 on here. Whenever a seat and guide thread came up, there have been some epic ones, about chatter, runnout issues, etc. My reply, was cut the seats on whatever machine, and bump with a stone, I call it my fine finish truing cut. 1, it will remove any chatter, 2, it will show you instantly if your seat is concentric, and 3, it doesn't add that much time. 4, no lapping needed, 5, the finish really can't be beat by any other method.

Whenever I replied, I was skipped over like I had the plague, seemingly ignored. I just find it funny, how its being finaly accepted. The argument has been, its a stone age method, get with the times, and or buy a better machine. I GAURENTEE you it takes WAAAY less time to use an older good condition good working dedicated seat and guide machine, and bumping with a stone, vs wasting 3 hours doing a valve job on a milling machine set up to do seats. Also, I say, how are your mains done? Line hone, oh yah, that's a series of stones. How are the caps prepped before line honing? On a cap cutter, wait, that uses a stone too, hmm. How are your rods resized, using stones on a rod mandrel, and the rod and rod cap are prepped in the same cap cutter you use for the main caps. Cylinders? Mostly stones, some use diamonds, but the majority, use stones. Cranks? stones, flywheels? Stones, some use a cbn wheel, but the majority, stones. And the almost 100% agreed upon method for refacing or grinding valves, there is that word again, we all use a stone. Or, for all the above, a grinding wheel of some sort. So, for you guys who think bumping seats to true them makes my work less "quality" than you who uses just a machine, because its outdated. Whatever. Rant over, sorry guys.

Frank

[Carnut1]

lol, I find it comical. Not directed to the original poster, but using finish stones after cutting seats on the machine. I have been HARPING this since at least 2004 on here. Whenever a seat and guide thread came up, there have been some epic ones, about chatter, runnout issues, etc. My reply, was cut the seats on whatever machine, and bump with a stone, I call it my fine finish truing cut. 1, it will remove any chatter, 2, it will show you instantly if your seat is concentric, and 3, it doesn't add that much time. 4, no lapping needed, 5, the finish really can't be beat by any other method.

Whenever I replied, I was skipped over like I had the plague, seemingly ignored. I just find it funny, how its being finaly accepted. The argument has been, its a stone age method, get with the times, and or buy a better machine. I GAURENTEE you it takes WAAAY less time to use an older good condition good working dedicated seat and guide machine, and bumping with a stone, vs wasting 3 hours doing a valve job on a milling machine set up to do seats. Also, I say, how are your mains done? Line hone, oh yah, that's a series of stones. How are the caps prepped before line honing? On a cap cutter, wait, that uses a stone too, hmm. How are your rods resized, using stones on a rod mandrel, and the rod and rod cap are prepped in the same cap cutter you use for the main caps. Cylinders? Mostly stones, some use diamonds, but the majority, use stones. Cranks? stones, flywheels? Stones, some use a cbn wheel, but the majority, stones. And the almost 100% agreed upon method for refacing or grinding valves, there is that word again, we all use a stone. Or, for all the above, a grinding wheel of some sort. So, for you guys who think bumping seats to true them makes my work less "quality" than you who uses just a machine, because its outdated. Whatever. Rant over, sorry guys.



Frank

I love this post and would love to do Serdi and finish seat with a stone. (Wish list)...I would add if you really want it right, finish the guides with stones before your cuts.