1000HP SBC in the Making

[Browns DMX Racing]

Hi Guys,
I'm in need of a little help, planning my 1000hp sbc, that I plan to spray an addictional 300hp to 400hp at it!!!
Here's what I have so far.
1. A set of (2005) SB2.2 GP Tech 1.1 Heads, that were hand finished.
IRV=286cc
CS=2.81
Should flow 400+ CFM @ .700
2. Ported Wilson intake (good from 4500 to 9500 rpms)
3. Dart Iron Eagle 400 raised deck & (50mm) cam location Block.
That was the easy part!!!

Here's where I need the help.
My plan is to build a 434, 440, or a 454 SBC, with a 4" (or larger) Sonny Bryant Crank. I hear that the sb2 heads work best at high RPMs, and that's where the problem comes in.
Should I spin a 4" crank to 8700+ rpms?
I thought about getting a mid or light weight crank, to make up for the extra length. Will I lose strength, for the nitrous, going light weight crank?
I also hear that I'll get extra harmonics with a longer stroke.
Most people keep there SB2 combos Top Secret, so its hard to find out what's working.

So, do I stay with a smaller stock, or dare to go larger, and if larger, will the motor last???
BTW, is there anybody/company that will convert a 4150 intake, to a 4500?

ANY HELP, and Information I get is appreciated!!!

[Ed-vancedEngines]

My first suggest is to lose the cast single 4 barrel manifold. Dude you are after serious horsepower. You need serious components.

I am hoping your heads were ported for the application you wish to use them with. If not, check with one of the professionals here about doing that for you. I believe I have seen writings of those heads being stronger, but on whose bench?

No way I would use a ligtweight crank for the power and nitrous adder you desire. Spinning the crank that high in rpm is not an issue if the supporting cast will support the rpm. To me that rpm would be considered mild for what you are building.

The Bryant Crank is nice but is it necessary for your needs? If that is what you want, I suggest to order it several months before you will need it. same with a Crower or Wineberg Custom Billet.

What you are seeking is not impossible but few builders including myself have done it. I have never had the customer with resources in their budget to do a small block like this, and for certain I couldn't afford it for me. I would definetly love to do one though.

I suggested to not use the intake you are talking about. This is Aluminum Sheet Metal Dual Dominator territory in these power levels.

Hope I have helped a little.

Ed

[dragv6]

Ed, Im trying to get my head around why you say this is a hard combo to deal with.
I have had a setup as follows
Bowtie block, splayed caps, chev 18degree heads, chev bowtie manifold, single carb, made 660hp @ 7600 & sprayed 300 to make 960 & it was only 358ci pretty easy.
Isnt the manifold & carbs setup you sugest a bit overbourd?
The setup he has pointed out should do it easy being over 400ci with better heads & all.
He is only asking for 1000hp, 600 - 700 asperated then the gas on top.
Matt

[Fatman]

DragV6
I read it as 1000hp plus 3-400hp spray.

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Either I did not understand correctly or you didn't. I am not sure now.

I'm in need of a little help, planning my 1000hp sbc, that I plan to spray an addictional 300hp to 400hp at it!!!

It sure looks to me that he is planning on getting 1,000 hp just on the engine with a nitrous engine to be spraying an additional 300 to 400 hp. To me that sure looks like plans for a 1,400 hp engine with his nitrous adder.

Maybe for you or for others it is a piece of cake and easy to get 1,000 all motor horsepower from a small block that is built to handle 400 shot of nitrous. I have never had the opportunity to do this, but I am reasonably sure it will not be done with cast intake manifold with one carb.

The SB 2.2 head has some awsum potential when ported for the correct application and when matched with all other supporting components. Still I think asking 1,000 hp from it while set up as a nitrous engine is not the easy cake walk that many may think it is.

Maybe I am wrong.

Ed

[Browns DMX Racing]

Thanks Ed,
This will be the last motor I'll do. I'm getting older, and the wife will luv it once I've stopped. So my thinking is, I may as well go for it!!!

The reason I want to stay with the cast intake is to try to recoup some of the money from the build, without scaring folks off, before I started racing it in the Head-up classes.

So, Your thinking is:
1. I shouldn't have a problem spinning a 4" or 4"+ crank to 8700 rpms (going thru the traps) on motor, and most likely 9500 rpms when using nitrous.
2. I should be able to use a crank that will reduce my cost. Like a Crower.
Those two things is Great News!!! Thanks!!!

As for the porting:
http://www.weldtech.com/products/GPTech1.html
I have the GP Tech 1.1
I was informed that this was the way to go.

And Yes!!! Your input has helped Greatly!!!

[dragv6]

Oops, I can see now I am wrong & can understand why you say what you did.
Sorry Ed, your advise would be spot on then.
Ill go and hide under the rock again.
Matt

[Browns DMX Racing]

Either I did not understand correctly or you didn't. I am not sure now.

I'm in need of a little help, planning my 1000hp sbc, that I plan to spray an addictional 300hp to 400hp at it!!!

It sure looks to me that he is planning on getting 1,000 hp just on the engine with a nitrous engine to be spraying an additional 300 to 400 hp. To me that sure looks like plans for a 1,400 hp engine with his nitrous adder.

Maybe for you or for others it is a piece of cake and easy to get 1,000 all motor horsepower from a small block that is built to handle 400 shot of nitrous. I have never had the opportunity to do this, but I am reasonably sure it will not be done with cast intake manifold with one carb.

The SB 2.2 head has some awsum potential when ported for the correct application and when matched with all other supporting components. Still I think asking 1,000 hp from it while set up as a nitrous engine is not the easy cake walk that many may think it is.

Maybe I am wrong.

Ed

I know that I'm asking for alot!!!
And I may not reach my goal, but I see guys with the sb2 heads, that claim to have 900 to 950 horse power, and I thought if I was to use a better combo of part, that I may be able to see a little gain.

[Ed-vancedEngines]

As you get a little further into this, I can probably be of a little help to you with some areas of this project.

We are currently in the process of developing a nitrous specific piston for a SB Bore engine without adding a ton of extra weight to it. First versions of this should be completed in the next couple or three weeks.

For what it is worth the engine these specific pistons are going in should be racing next month and spraying upwards of a planned 700 hp of nitrous. This is a continuation of our nitrous specific pistons for the BB Bore sizes which we are happy with so far. Although we are happy with the first version of the BB Piston, we have made changes which promise additional strength in problem areas but ended up with considerable less weight than the first version did.

Those are going in a 622 cu in. I mention this, becuase it is things we learned with the BB Piston that have helped us get a little further ahead quicker with this first version SB piston. I say we becuase these are only so far made for me according to my designs with the chief design engineer and me butting heads until we get on the same page. This is the 4 special design piston we have done togeter so we are used to each other by now. lol.

My Piston company I use is;
http://www.brcperformance.com

BRC Identifies each piston by the dome design and most domes are not my designs so my name is not on the part #. The specific BB Piston does have my name on the part # becuse the design of the dome also is mine.

Anyway, I told you I have never had the opportunity to build a SB like you are planning but I have a few friends that have and we can get info from them as neeeded if you need any help from me on this. I will do what little I can to help.

Ed

[3V Performance]

Do you guy's think a 4" crank is realy needed? I see cup guy's with 3.25 cranks making 860 to 880hp with flat tappit .874 lifters and a 830 carb spinning 9200 - 9600 rpm.

I think a 4.180 to 4.200 bore
those heads tuned up ( see Larry )
take the cam out to 55mm ( 60mm if block will go )
3.25 - 3.300 crank
like Ed said ( more carburators )

I think your goal is very easy.

[Transman]

I agree. I've worked with a few guys running those engines in drag cars and generally if you have the right cylinder head/camshaft combo horsepower is a non-issue. Even the 18-degree SBC stuff will make near 800 without much effort. I believe a cast intake will get you near 875 or so with the 2.2 heads. Don't forget they were designed to be a single 4-bbl head to begin with! Next up would be a sheet metal intake ala Hogan's, CFE, TRE, Hughes, etc. If you plan on running an automatic torque converter selection is critical with an engine like that. With a 2.2 I always recommend waiting until you have solid dyno information before getting a converter built, even more so than any other SBC combo.

[EngineTech1]

Do you guy's think a 4" crank is realy needed? I see cup guy's with 3.25 cranks making 860 to 880hp with flat tappit .874 lifters and a 830 carb spinning 9200 - 9600 rpm.

I think a 4.180 to 4.200 bore
those heads tuned up ( see Larry )
take the cam out to 55mm ( 60mm if block will go )
3.25 - 3.300 crank
like Ed said ( more carburators )

I think your goal is very easy.

I dont' know of any cup teams that make that much hp.
They are limited to displacement and bore sizes, that only leaves a VERY small range of stroke length. If they were suddenly allowed to build 400cid engines don't think they wouldn't jump on that longer stroke.
Giving up displacement when you don't have to is not smart. The more stroke he puts in that thing the easier it will be to reach his power goals.

[EngineTech1]

Thanks Ed,
This will be the last motor I'll do. I'm getting older, and the wife will luv it once I've stopped. So my thinking is, I may as well go for it!!!

The reason I want to stay with the cast intake is to try to recoup some of the money from the build, without scaring folks off, before I started racing it in the Head-up classes.

So, Your thinking is:
1. I shouldn't have a problem spinning a 4" or 4"+ crank to 8700 rpms (going thru the traps) on motor, and most likely 9500 rpms when using nitrous.
2. I should be able to use a crank that will reduce my cost. Like a Crower.
Those two things is Great News!!! Thanks!!!

As for the porting:
http://www.weldtech.com/products/GPTech1.html
I have the GP Tech 1.1
I was informed that this was the way to go.

And Yes!!! Your input has helped Greatly!!!

I personally don't think those heads will get it done. Thats a pretty small port and it doesn't flow very much. The GP heads are good stuff I just don't think that particular version is even close. Definitely not designed for the application you have in mind. I would think you would need closer to a 300cc or bigger SB2 port with a 2.18 valve that flowed more like 420+ cfm.
I don't know about anyone else but that's the way I'd be leaning on the heads. I also agree that you are going to need a sheet metal manifold and dual carbs to get to that 1000 hp NA goal. I did heads for a SBF 468 that was a very nice dry sump engine, the heads were Victor Glidden's over 420cfm, and it had a sheet metal intake with a single dominator, it made 980hp. This was built at Kuntz and Company, and with another dominator it would have cracked the 1000 mark I believe.
Build it big!

[airflowdevelop]

I have to confirm that my findings agree with Dan....

A few points of interest.

1. Start with a new set of castings and have the head designed for what you are doing.

2. Keep an eye on piston design with that much dope...

3. 1khp is not nearly as easy to do as some may say....this is going to be a very costly operation...probably double of what it would cost to do the same with a conventional head BBC...plus the BBC would like the dope even more! If you are not class racing...you are crazy for spending this kind of money!

4. Do you have any idea how hard this thing is going to be on valvetrain?

Dennis

[Damn Yankee]

Dano, you have a PM