Vacuum Pumps: Plumbing Arrangement

[V8Rides]

Is a vacuum pump setup beneficial for drag strip with open headers ? Street bracket racing
Or would a evac setup work ok for strip
Also with the setup do you remove breathers (vented filler cap to sealed) and pcv valve removed to work properly ..just vented at pump Or catch can ?

[JC565Ford]

Hmm.

That's interesting.

I'll check on another hosting site.

[JC565Ford]

Is a vacuum pump setup beneficial for drag strip with open headers ? Street bracket racing
Or would a evac setup work ok for strip
Also with the setup do you remove breathers (vented filler cap to sealed) and pcv valve removed to work properly ..just vented at pump Or catch can ?

Wow...... Seriously ?

Are you just trying to drive up your post count ?

[skinny z]

Is a vacuum pump setup beneficial for drag strip with open headers ? Street bracket racing
Or would a evac setup work ok for strip
Also with the setup do you remove breathers (vented filler cap to sealed) and pcv valve removed to work properly ..just vented at pump Or catch can ?

Wow...... Seriously ?

Are you just trying to drive up your post count ?

But JC, if you were to answer their questions (and I've no interest in my post count) would it be along these lines?

A vacuum pump or pan evac are both beneficial and that would be no matter the application (within reason I suppose). Drag racing, on the street (so I read) and probably road racing too.
Pan evacuation via the headers would require breathers to keep the supply of fresh air coming as the combustion blowby is drawn out.
A vacuum pump requires an arrangement where no air is drawn into the crankcase in a conventional sense. The exhaust side of the pump vents into a catch can and the catch can vents to the atmosphere.

I'm posting that so that, right or wrong, I can get the straight scoop. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

For me, pan evacuation isn't the way I'd go but that's me. The vacuum pump has it's pros and cons and is something I'd consider.
Posted above is a PCV arrangement that will build some crankcase negative pressure and to good effect as per the posters comments.

That said, I run a conventional PCV system which by design, would create a crankcase vacuum if there were no breather on the opposing valve cover. I've never done that though however I'm keeping all options open.

[JC565Ford]

But JC, if you were to answer their questions (and I've no interest in my post count) would it be along these lines?
.

Do you really think someone posting on one of the most "tech" performance engine sites really doesn't know how a vacuum pump works ?

And that question would be their first post?

[skinny z]

But JC, if you were to answer their questions (and I've no interest in my post count) would it be along these lines?
.

Do you really think someone posting on one of the most "tech" performance engine sites really doesn't know how a vacuum pump works ?

And that question would be their first post?

Obviously. It happens. As a first time poster perhaps there's no realization how "tech" performance this forum is. Or how naïve the questions might be.
What would be the objective if the post is of a sinister nature?

Anyway, what do you think of my summary of vacuum pumps and pan evacuation systems? It's a fair bet in my estimation that's you've got experience with both.

[Dave B]

Star mach gen 2 electric works great. We pull 25 plus inches on sbc stuff and about 23-24" on bbc stuff

[JC565Ford]

Obviously. It happens. As a first time poster perhaps there's no realization how "tech" performance this forum is. Or how naïve the questions might be.
What would be the objective if the post is of a sinister nature?

Anyway, what do you think of my summary of vacuum pumps and pan evacuation systems? It's a fair bet in my estimation that's you've got experience with both.

I've had experience with both, and both have their place. The vac pumps are not a "Free lunch" you pay for it. $600- $1,00 worth plus the space. Depending on the engine they can make a big difference. On the 565 it's worth about 28-30hp. That's the difference from having a 975hp engine or a 1,002 hp engine.

I've been told that with stroker BBC's they can be worth 40hp, which has very much to do with oil control.

Pan-a-Vacs can work well, but people make the mistake on street cars of running a restrictive muffler which builds back pressure. The one-way valves do not work with back pressure.

[skinny z]

Star mach gen 2 electric works great. We pull 25 plus inches on sbc stuff and about 23-24" on bbc stuff

I'll pass the pump suggestion along to my friend. He's repurposing a Ford vacuum pump and there's some concern as to whether it'll handle combustion gases and oil very well.

25" seems an awful lot. Have you taken precautions with engine seals and such?

[skinny z]

Obviously. It happens. As a first time poster perhaps there's no realization how "tech" performance this forum is. Or how naïve the questions might be.
What would be the objective if the post is of a sinister nature?

Anyway, what do you think of my summary of vacuum pumps and pan evacuation systems? It's a fair bet in my estimation that's you've got experience with both.

I've had experience with both, and both have their place. The vac pumps are not a "Free lunch" you pay for it. $600- $1,00 worth plus the space. Depending on the engine they can make a big difference. On the 565 it's worth about 28-30hp. That's the difference from having a 975hp engine or a 1,002 hp engine.

I've been told that with stroker BBC's they can be worth 40hp, which has very much to do with oil control.

Pan-a-Vacs can work well, but people make the mistake on street cars of running a restrictive muffler which builds back pressure. The one-way valves do not work with back pressure.

I wouldn't be going for a pan evac personally unless the car becomes a dedicated racer. There's every possibility that could happen but not for a few years yet. I'll be open headers on race days but just as you describe, it'll be a crappy full exhaust on cruise days. The PCV works well enough but there's not a lot of crankcase vacuum benefit from it in its current form.
The vacuum pump is still intriguing although it's not in my immediate plans (remember this thread is for another forum racer).
This hobby has become really expensive and I've blown through more than a few years worth of budget just to get back on the road. And more to spend still.
You're correct. There's no free lunch.

[JC565Ford]

Ford Elec Vac Pump on the dyno: test


Test 2:


Ran the Ford electric pump on the dyno. For the 565 it could only pull 1.5-2". To run one on the street you'd certainly need an oil separator, as I killed one on the dyno in just the short time we ran it.

The following month we went back with pump from GZ:

[skinny z]

Ford Elec Vac Pump:
To run one on the street you'd certainly need an oil separator, as I killed one on the dyno in just the short time we ran it.

I'll certainly pass that longevity, or lack of it rather, to my friend.
His latest comment regarding the Ford pump was regarding how long it would last.

[Dave B]

Star mach gen 2 electric works great. We pull 25 plus inches on sbc stuff and about 23-24" on bbc stuff

I'll pass the pump suggestion along to my friend. He's repurposing a Ford vacuum pump and there's some concern as to whether it'll handle combustion gases and oil very well.

25" seems an awful lot. Have you taken precautions with engine seals and such?

Yet to see a race engine with too much vacumn. Especially with a power adder. Heavy pins ,correct clearances etc.

[skinny z]

Star mach gen 2 electric works great. We pull 25 plus inches on sbc stuff and about 23-24" on bbc stuff

I'll pass the pump suggestion along to my friend. He's repurposing a Ford vacuum pump and there's some concern as to whether it'll handle combustion gases and oil very well.

25" seems an awful lot. Have you taken precautions with engine seals and such?

Yet to see a race engine with too much vacumn. Especially with a power adder. Heavy pins ,correct clearances etc.

I'd say "race engine" is the operative phrase there.
What we've got is really just glorified street stuff that we race.

[FC-Pilot]

Ford Elec Vac Pump on the dyno: test


Test 2:


Ran the Ford electric pump on the dyno. For the 565 it could only pull 1.5-2". To run one on the street you'd certainly need an oil separator, as I killed one on the dyno in just the short time we ran it.

The following month we went back with pump from GZ:

I was hoping you might jump in as you are one of few who has real data with one of these on the dyno.

Paul.