Home ported sbc 441 heads

[6.50camaro]

After a couple of not so good TnT attempts I finally got things worked out. [ first trip tranny issues ,second trip electrical issues]
Off the trailer 1st run was a 7.270 @ 94.30 with a 1.538 60' . A little background on the engine 377 cu.in. [4.00x3.75] I have had this short block mothballed for 8 years. freshened with new rings and bearings. I home ported a set of 441 heads did my own 4 angle valve job with stones [38 45 60 75 ] new Manley valves cut guides for positive seals cut seats for LS 1.320 springs Pac 1221 springs Ti retainers 145 seat 408 open pressures good for .600 lift. Holley 300-36 Street Dominator dual plane intake. The cam is not the best and I know it, but it was on the garage shelf. it is an Edelbrock Rollin thunder Hyd. roller 234/238@ .050 .539/.548 lift on a 112 LSA. I'm using 1.65 intake and 1.6 exhaust rockers.
First run shifted at 6300 1-2 and 6000 2-3 everything good . The second run I raised the shift point to 6500 for both. Bad move the valvetrain start objecting just before the shift. I tried going for the whole 1/4 but the valve train again hit its rpm limit about 150' before the stripe. It still run a 11.611 quarter the mph was down to 108.xx because of letting off and coasting once I heard the valvetrain go unhappy. My1000' time was 9.639 which in the Wallace calculators says the 1/4 should be 11.61 which it was but I was out of the throttle the last 150' or so I think it would have been in the mid to lower 11.50's.
Comparing the time slip to Wallace Ideal run calculator My 60' is about .04 fast the 330' is .05-.06 slow, recovers some by the 660' then top ends good. Would a tighter LSA give me better mid range and shift recovery to take the slump out of the 330-660 times. I can change from 4.88's to 4.56's to keep the rpm down in the 1/4 if I do more Quarter runs
The pics are from work in progress.

[Monza355]

This is great with old smog heads which look great btw on a what sounds like a very street friendly engine (i thought you had a 243/251 voodoo in it)

You definitely have a 6.90’s in it! 4.88 gear is steep. But what size tire are you running and what does the car weigh ? I feel your 60ft times could also be better. What trans and converter ?

[6.50camaro]

This is great with old smog heads which look great btw on a what sounds like a very street friendly engine (i thought you had a 243/251 voodoo in it)

You definitely have a 6.90’s in it! 4.88 gear is steep. But what size tire are you running and what does the car weigh ? I feel your 60ft times could also be better. What trans and converter ?

I do have that Lunati cam. Just want to see what I could do with the old Rollin Thunder first. The car weighs 3200 lbs as it goes to the line. Tires are 10.5 29.5 Hoosiers Tranny is a turbo 400 with a 4500 stall converter. I've got a lot of other parts to play with this engine RHS 220 heads. 4 different single plane intakes a smallish solid roller 253/263 @.050 .604/.604 lift. I just thought I would just see what I could do with a street/ strip combo If I decide to put my index car back on the street. It is not gutted and would not take much to make street able again.
I forgot to say in the first post the heads were angled milled .100 to 70cc chambers.

[6.50camaro]

Monza this was the first day at the track that I wasn't dealing with other issues. Just trying to get a good baseline. Foot braked at 2000 rpm and trying different shift points to start.

[6.50camaro]

Some more work in progress pics. And as cast pics

[F-BIRD'88]

If yiu have different rockers with less ratio try them.
Try either setting the valvetrain so rhe hyd lifters run with a very small lash..002-.004" This will stop hyd lifter pump up.
Also try setting the hyd lifter lash so that the hd plunder is almost bottomed out (.002"-.009") This stops high rpm hyd lifter collapse.

If you have a set of solid roller lifters try them on the hyd roller cam. Set lash carefully very tight..002-/.005"
This will allow shimming the valve springs a bit more.
This will stabolize the valvetrain at high rpm.
Try the singleplane intake.

This is why I avoid hyd roller cams on drag stuff.
(Get much better power and high rpm performance with "solid roller mechanical "street roller" cams.)

You could disassemble your hyd lifters and shim up the hyd plunger travel limit to get it almost 0 but in the middle of its travel to get best effective push rod length and net rocker geometry. Make them act like a near solid roller lifter. (they are still too heavy).

[F-BIRD'88]

I believe I read somewhere that Edelbrock had similar valvetrain stability bleed down/pump up issues with this hyd roller cam also. In their in house dyno testing. Creates a pesky hard upper rpm limit.

[F-BIRD'88]

Nice work on the heads. I am doing a similar #920 casting sbc heads for a low buck project.
It is essentually the same same job as I do on #4416 305HO heads. "Poor Man's racing head"

Great effort and real world testing.

[6.50camaro]

F-bird , The heads started at around 159cc, NHRA stock spec is 161cc and are in the 175cc range after rubbing on them. Over the off season I may install the Lunati voodoo cam to see if the Edelbrock lobes are an issue. Thank for that heads up I have not seen anything on that. I have noticed that the dyno charts they have for this cam end at 6000 rpm which is where their claimed peak hp is. I do have rockers from 1.5 to 1.7 ratio rockers to experiment with plus a couple sets of solid rollers. Unfortunately I will most likely have to miss the last TnT of the season next Saturday.

[F-BIRD'88]

In the end I believe that both the Voodoo cam and the solid roller cam will spank the rolling blunder cam in this engine. But running solid roller lifters on it may help.

Does the engine sound noisey at idle right after a hard pass? (closed exhaust)
When the lifters collapse this creates hard valve seating on the closing side of the cam. Promotes loss of running valve duration and valve bounce at high rpm.
Progressive airiation of the engine oil on each progressive drag test amplifies the problem.

[6.50camaro]

In the end I believe that both the Voodoo cam and the solid roller cam will spank the rolling blunder cam in this engine. But running solid roller lifters on it may help.

Does the engine sound noisey at idle right after a hard pass? (closed exhaust)
When the lifters collapse this creates hard valve seating on the closing side of the cam. Promotes loss of running valve duration and valve bounce at high rpm.
Progressive airiation of the engine oil on each progressive drag test amplifies the problem.

Truth be told, the voodoo cam with solid rollers was my original plan. but I got the Howard hyd. rollers at a good price so I thought what the heck I'll try that set up first. I do have a set of PAC1221X springs that will shim to 180 seat pressure and 425 open and still give me clearance for .600 lift, plus I have a rev kit for the solid lifters. I also have other solid street roller springs but would have to cut the spring seats to 1.550 for them.

[steve cowan]

After a couple of not so good TnT attempts I finally got things worked out. [ first trip tranny issues ,second trip electrical issues]
Off the trailer 1st run was a 7.270 @ 94.30 with a 1.538 60' . A little background on the engine 377 cu.in. [4.00x3.75] I have had this short block mothballed for 8 years. freshened with new rings and bearings. I home ported a set of 441 heads did my own 4 angle valve job with stones [38 45 60 75 ] new Manley valves cut guides for positive seals cut seats for LS 1.320 springs Pac 1221 springs Ti retainers 145 seat 408 open pressures good for .600 lift. Holley 300-36 Street Dominator dual plane intake. The cam is not the best and I know it, but it was on the garage shelf. it is an Edelbrock Rollin thunder Hyd. roller 234/238@ .050 .539/.548 lift on a 112 LSA. I'm using 1.65 intake and 1.6 exhaust rockers.
First run shifted at 6300 1-2 and 6000 2-3 everything good . The second run I raised the shift point to 6500 for both. Bad move the valvetrain start objecting just before the shift. I tried going for the whole 1/4 but the valve train again hit its rpm limit about 150' before the stripe. It still run a 11.611 quarter the mph was down to 108.xx because of letting off and coasting once I heard the valvetrain go unhappy. My1000' time was 9.639 which in the Wallace calculators says the 1/4 should be 11.61 which it was but I was out of the throttle the last 150' or so I think it would have been in the mid to lower 11.50's.
Comparing the time slip to Wallace Ideal run calculator My 60' is about .04 fast the 330' is .05-.06 slow, recovers some by the 660' then top ends good. Would a tighter LSA give me better mid range and shift recovery to take the slump out of the 330-660 times. I can change from 4.88's to 4.56's to keep the rpm down in the 1/4 if I do more Quarter runs
The pics are from work in progress.

Dan,
Very cool project, I agree with Monza 6.90s will be achieved, I like the gear / tyre combination but I would run a bigger converter. 5500 - 6000rpm.
I think if you throw some lift and duration at the engine she will respond. Ditch the dual plane intake as you want the engine to hang on even if your past peak.
Might be worth talking to Larry Meaux or Mark ( vortec pro) as they would of done those heads.
I know you said the car might go back on the street but let's see how fast she can go with those cylinder heads.
This is the stuff I enjoy nice job.

[6.50camaro]

Thanks Steve , I also enjoy seeing what can be done with thing that most people nowadays consider junk. If I can make it go 7.00 I would real happy, 7.00 is a popular index class. I pleased with the first good day testing . I do have 2 other converters 4600-5200 and 5300-5800 I can try.
Forgot to say Valves are still 1.94 intake and 1.50 exhaust. I can do all the changes I want and still go back to this milder street combo if so desired. Just started with the mildest stuff I had on hand other than the rocker my 1.5's and 1.6's are currently on other engines and I did not want to cannibalize them for a baseline.

[6.50camaro]

The week I was having Electrical issues I had my 750 Holley DP with a HP main body. This is my tried and true start up get running and first outing carb. Had no issues with the engine running just the charging system. The Ignition system cut out after the 3rd run that week it was just running off the battery and voltage drop to low to fire the Mallory VII system. Found broken wire in the 51 year old wiring harness. Car was running 7.57 @90mph. This week I had put a 850 Holley HP I get off Ebay for under $200 went thru it with new gaskets and check all the air bleeds and emulsion bleeds. everything looked in order. contacted Allstate carbs as they were the original company to mod this carb. It ended up being a custom milled body to flow a true 950cfm 1.500 venturi 1.750 throttle plates. The car liked the new carb pick up 3 tenths in the 1/8 and 4 mph no other change. I can take a little jet out as the plugs are showing rich. Started with 36* timing the ground strap was showing color change to .060 of the main body set timing back to 32* and that were its at right now. I do have different spacers I can try [ open, 4 hole tapered and a regular 4 hole all 1" ] right now its got a 1" hybrid 3 hole spacer 2 holes over the deep side and 1 oval over the shallow side.

[vortecpro]

A thread I can sink my teeth in! I think the 441 head is a excellent choice the best responding SBC production head ever cast. Whats your trans like?