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EPD heads

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EPD heads

Postby 67 Nova » Sun May 27, 2007 11:22 am

I have a set of EPD?Pontiac "427" and was wondering if there still around? I did a "google" and nothing but customers heads on motors etc.

Thanks, John 8)
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Sun May 27, 2007 12:05 pm

John
What do you need to know about them?
Do they need repaired?

Send me all you know about them and pics of different angles and the EPD number. THat will help me to tell you something about them.

Do you know if they are any version of any of the old EPD Pro Stock heads? He id several different things depending on when and for IHRA or NHRA.

EPD Cylinder Heads has been officially out of business for awhile, but Larry does still fix problems with any of his older heads. He still owns the shop but EPD has now only one part time employee, and that is the founder and owner.

If you havae had someone telling you they are too old and are a piece of crap and you can't make them work. Just enjoy yourself when you blow their doors off with that ancient head. It was a good piece and is still good if it is in good condition and no one has butchered the original work that either Larry, Mike, or Kent did on them.

Ed

edvancedengines@sbcglabal.net

I do not check that email account often but use it to receive big attachments. If you sent me something PM me that you did.
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Postby 67 Nova » Sun May 27, 2007 2:25 pm

Thanks, Ed. I've seen your post about these "older junk" heads that flow as you were claiming around 458 CFM out run the newer 12 deg. stuff. But I forget if it was here or on YB. At this time, I'm not in too much of a rush, but will look into the #'s when I get to the shop.
The heads ARE "supposed" to be Ex-Pro Stockers and same with my shortblock, 498 inch deal. I know I did see something about EPD 800 I think a while back. It's going to be a cast single 4 NOS engine now. Seems everyone in the know at the local track know of these EPD's as a respectable set of heads and intake. The motor they came off was a gen 5 572 that was a nitrous deal that made 1031 HP on the motor, so I know there potential there. I'm more curious then anything to find out some more about these. Thanks will get in touch in a bit, John 8)
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Sun May 27, 2007 5:53 pm

John,
I am a huge fan and admirer of the EPD stuuf they did. In my opinion Drag Racing has lost one of the more important of the unknowns when Larry retired.

There are some of the new breed giuys that are doing fine but nobody in the cylinder head business in my opinion ever did as much for the sport and for Pro Stock as Larry has done. He took factory castings and when he got through they were a completely different head. In the later years he had Brodix cast his EB series of castings for him to use as a better starting place. In the early 1980's and on up to the early and mid 90's if you qualified in Pro Stock you had EPD or Reher Morrision & Shepherd for your heads. The only ones that had the RMS heads were the Reher Morrison Team and their Engine Customers.

The spread ports as we know them were originated by Larry using the Old 861 Bow Tie Conventional Port casting and he moved the entire intake ports, valve locations and exhuast port locations. That head design was used in both NHRA and in IHRA Pro Stock in the mid 1980's.

The 427 Pontiac Head was a creation of Lee Shepherd that Brodix cast for GM. At the same time, GM released the Shepherd design to Maskins so the Big Chief head was begun. So what we all ended up with was three very similar heads from two sources of Brodix and Dart. The Pontiac, Big Duke, Big Chief are all basically the same head. There are some slight differences in valve placing and in valve angles but the basic heads are the same.

What you have would not be numbered as EPD 800 series though. Larry had already gone past 800 before the Pontiac heads were built.

Ed
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Postby Greezer » Tue May 29, 2007 4:48 pm

Have a nice day
Last edited by Greezer on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Tue May 29, 2007 5:12 pm

Send me pics that show the openings of Intake runners, The openings of exhaust runners, the top of the exhaust runners/ports The end view of the head where it says EPD, The combustion chambers, The top of the intake runners view from the rocker arm area, and with all of that we should be able to get some pretty good ideas of what you have.

Larry did not put a different sries of numbers on his heads according to what design they were or if they were only ported by him. He put the numbers on in the exact sequence of when they were worked by him. So a set of mildly modified heads or a set of killer Pro Stock heads could have numbers following right after one another. By that number I am guessing those heads may have been done in the very late 1980's. to early 1990's.

If they are his Pro Stock heads of that era they will still make tons of power when used in something built to take advantage of them.

Not only am I pretty good at having a little bit of EPD knowledge, I am friends with one of the previous key guys that was there from the start, becuase it is Larry's brother. I caan get in contact with Larry when it is necessary. So it looks like possibly both of you have come to the right place. I hope.

If you send me pics sent to;
edvancedengines@sbcglobal.net

Then email me at
edvancedengines@hotmail.com
and tell me you sent mail to my sbc box. Or PM me here.

Ed
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Postby 67 Nova » Tue May 29, 2007 7:12 pm

Ed, I haven't seen my heads in about a year :shock:

But It "looks" like on the pictures I have to say

EPD
7117

I sent you 2 pictures that I have.

Thanks, John 8)
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Wed May 30, 2007 4:46 am

John,
Those two pics were kind of vague, so I could not see much at all in them.

Just by what I could see they appear to be a later madel version of the EB series heads Larry had Brodix cast for him. Those exhaust ports looked large though.

I think I saw some epoxy on the walls of the intake ports, and that does look strange to me. Larry usually diod do epoxy in the roof of the short turn radius on many of his modified stuff but his EB stuff was intentionally cast with smaller runners so that was usually not necessary.

Those runners do look very healthy though. Have you checked the cc of them yet?

More pics could be much more helpful. Pics of the inside of the intake and inside of the exhaust in addition to those I first asked about could help me more.

Right now to me they appear to be a 4.840 version of the EB series that possibly someone else has done something with since leaving EPD.

A good pic of the EPD Stamp can also show me if it is an actual EPD Logo or not. IN the actual EPD Logo the leters were slighly mis-aligned on the heads and on the Intakes he built, intentionally.

Ed
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Wed May 30, 2007 4:48 am

Greezer,
I have an engine out there now with an earlier head than the number you gave that is having no problems at all producing an excess of horsepower. I just love that EPD stuff.

Ed
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Postby 67 Nova » Wed May 30, 2007 5:25 pm

Ed, I knew there were not the greatest photo's, but that's all I have on them.

I was also told they are 15 deg. heads??? that I can't comment on. I have know the last3 owners of these, but this was after the fact. Here is what I know, or should I say "told" of these from the people that owned them:

Ran, or tried to run NHRA Pro Stock back in the late 90's, 97 or so. They guy was buddies with Ray Franks and would travel and stay at his house. As you can see, they weren't "REALLY" what was needed at that time for Pro Stock, so the owner at the time, switched over to a 500 inch nitrous Pro Mod for a bit. That's where the epoxy came in and I would gather the larger ex. port possible. After a few years with the nitrous, the guy switched to Blown Alky and sold this stuff off. Mine was is back-up set that was told to be a identical deal to a Wj deal that the guy bought???

The next owner had the single 4 done that you see on a 460 inch motor and ran into the 7.70 with this set-up on a small jet???? I have spoken with him at lengths and he said he really like this set-uo, but got caught up in the 10, 11, 12 deg. stuff and got a set of 12 deg. heads, but only picked up a bit, like a tenth and a half.

He sold them to the guy I got them off, who was using them to run NPS in the NSCA (old NMCA) deal on a 572. Now the motor was no where near as strong as my short, and the new drive who was just learning made less then 10 runs with them, and broke the block. Car DID run 8.01 with a 28 jet I recall @ 3350 lbs when they broke the block right down the center. Now I know this guy had a bit more done to the intake as I have the flow #'s right here after the intake was done.

I does say there EPD's on the sheet from 2004. 2.400/1.900 with the cast single and 4.500 bore, they flowed between 469 on the best and 451 on the worst. Now I have a 4.6+ bore, so I could get a bit more. But the original owner told me that the velocity of these were amazing. I guess they accelerate really well to from what I gather.

So, there you have it, my novel for today, LOL 8)
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Wed May 30, 2007 5:54 pm

the EPD EB series heads that were made for retail sale did have larger ports than what was made for NHRA Pro Stock.

I doubt the guys story about being identical to Warren's heads becuase until two years ago his heads did not have big intake or exhaust ports in them. Have not talked with him in many years but I have kept up with developments in his progrm through third party sources.

This is a pic of his Pro Stock intake ports of 3 years ago. I am thinking that these were for the DRCE 2 engine. If you will notice the intake runners were not huge back then. Now they are pretty good sized from what I hear. That was the result of the higher rpms that the newer Pro Stock programs allowed. Og course that also was not an EB casting either. Warren to my knowledge never used an EB casting. He did use the 861 Chevy BowTie Casting in earlier years, Tried the GM Pontiac casting for a short while, went back to his frankenstien one of a kind 861's and from that moved to the DRCE 1 casting. Most of that was a joint effort of Larry and Warren. Those two have been together in thoughts and designs as friends and in the development in cylinder heads since the first Pro Stock Warren had that was constructed by Don Ness.






Image
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Postby 526FIREHAWK » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:40 am

[http://www.godragracing.com/articles/project_cars/kenny_staib/part2.php

Heres some pics of the M2 cnc DRCE heads, Look pretty nice to me.

Jerid[/url]
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Postby 526FIREHAWK » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:41 am

Go to the link, lots of good DRCE build up info.
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Postby Ed-vancedEngines » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:09 pm

It is a good article but does have some misleading or wrong info like a typical article not written by an engine builder would have.

Has absolutely nothing to do with EPD heads, which is the subject title of the thread though.

The pic that I posted is an EPD head.
It was directly off of Kurt Johnson's NHRA Pro Stock from a very few years back and as was freshened to be used by Mike Moran in his turbo monster. My point in posting that pic was to show that it did not have sewer pipe sized intake runners, but yet that head did set a few National Pro Stock Records when it was being run in NHRA Pro Stock. It also was not round or oval intake ports.

Now back to the article about those particular M2 DRCE2 Heads. In the article it ws mentioned that with the accuracy it is not necessary to use valve spring shims with that head. That statement to me is way out in left field somewhere. Installing valve springs in an engine like that without setting them up with shims is unheard of and I am certain was an error in the story. You have to shim them to get what you want. Fact is I shim intakes and exhaust different in almost everything.

Still it is a very good article that is worth reading for most anyone interested in the technical aspects of racing engines.

Thanks for the post.

Ed
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Postby 526FIREHAWK » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:29 am

You are right, it does not have anything to do with the EPD heads,
I was only trying to add pictures of DRCE heads for compairison.
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