Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

[PackardV8]

Dirt cheap EVs are coming, so the throw away car is to become a reality.

That, plus young urbans don't even bother to get a driver's license. Traffic, ever-escalating cost, readily available ride-sharing are killing POVs.

[Belgian1979]

In a city, yes, anywhere else, no.

[PackardV8]

In a city, yes, anywhere else, no.

Which is 85% of the population in many countries, including Northern America.

[Belgian1979]

85% don't make me laugh. At least in Belgium maximum 15-20%.
An EV, even in a city will turn out to be a bad idea all things considered.

A wet dream for the commy tree huggers, yes, absolutely.

But let them do it. It will destroy our economy and our lives.

[Tom68]

We're a 5 car family out of town, if we went electric and the power supply will handle it we could charge all 5 overnight off street.
Inner suburban dwellers without parking will be better off with ice cars.
EV's will suit some people and when they become cheap and gimmicky enough they will sell.

An area where I do occasional work, 1 street car park per dwelling, someone takes your park, no charging. One local Woman takes a book with her to a charging station when she can't get her park.

Screenshot 2023-12-29 070303.jpg

[PackardV8]

85% don't make me laugh. At least in Belgium maximum 15-20%.

Unlike you, I don't supply statistics without a credible source.

56.2% of the entire global population now lives in cities. The biggest change has been in Latin America and the Caribbean, with 81.2% of the population now living in urban areas; in Northern American countries 83% of residents lived in cities in 2020. While the 2023 census is not complete, the estimated percentage today is 85%.

Belgium has one city with more than a million people, six cities with between 100,000 and 1 million people, and 297 cities with between 10,000 and 100,000 people. Urban population (% of total population) in Belgium was reported at 98.15 % in 2022, according to the World Bank.

The above is a summation of information found within this site.https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/ ... in%201950. and this site
https://tradingeconomics.com/belgium/ur ... -data.html

[Belgian1979]

85% don't make me laugh. At least in Belgium maximum 15-20%.

Unlike you, I don't supply statistics without a credible source.

56.2% of the entire global population now lives in cities. The biggest change has been in Latin America and the Caribbean, with 81.2% of the population now living in urban areas; in Northern American countries 83% of residents lived in cities in 2020. While the 2023 census is not complete, the estimated percentage today is 85%.

Belgium has one city with more than a million people, six cities with between 100,000 and 1 million people, and 297 cities with between 10,000 and 100,000 people. Urban population (% of total population) in Belgium was reported at 98.15 % in 2022, according to the World Bank.

The above is a summation of information found within this site.https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/ ... in%201950. and this site
https://tradingeconomics.com/belgium/ur ... -data.html

Unlike you I don't outright believe numbers quoted because the can be seriously skewed Especially statistics. Let's talk about Belgium for a moment)

It's a question where they get their info. In the Northern most populated areas we have 5 big cities (Ghent, Antwerp, Hasselt, Leuven and Mechelen). These you can really call cities. The rest I would not even count as a 'cit. In those ca. 1 M out of 6 M live. Obviously the entire country is tightly populated when compared to for example the US. If you obviously consider the entire country to be 1 city then 98% could be correct. Not exactly a scientificially correct method however.

https://wikikids.nl/Lijst_van_Belgische_steden

In the attached Peer where I live is considered a city because officially it is named as such. However, this is the country side and not a city. On top, out of the entire community of Peer, 20% lives in the town center where you have the facilities of a 'town'....Not exactly conducive to making conclusions when you count 98% of the people of Peer to be living in the 'CITY'. If you consider Peer with ca. 16k inhabitants to be a 'CITY' good on you but I don't.

If I have to drive out to the 'city' to charge my damn EV every day, have my wife get me to go home while it is charging, then recover it at 2 in the night, it all stops...EV's are a bad idea, period.

But you know what: there are no bigger lies than statistics.

Let me say this: people who bad mouth me because I don't agree with your EV BS, don't talk to me, especially when bad mouthing me, so go to hell.

[Belgian1979]

We're a 5 car family out of town, if we went electric and the power supply will handle it we could charge all 5 overnight off street.
Inner suburban dwellers without parking will be better off with ice cars.
EV's will suit some people and when they become cheap and gimmicky enough they will sell.

An area where I do occasional work, 1 street car park per dwelling, someone takes your park, no charging. One local Woman takes a book with her to a charging station when she can't get her park.


Screenshot 2023-12-29 070303.jpg

The utility doesn't allow you to even install a charger at home anymore because of a too low capacity of the grid. Hence my comment above of having to charge an EV in the 'CITY' center of Peer and having to retrieve it at 2 in the morning (you get charged extra and get fined when you leave it too long).

[Tom68]

Looks like Teslas aren't immune to the old people "thought I was pushing on the brake pedal" trick, tried to push the BMW (out of sight, hanging through the Armco) out of the Sth Melbourne Market carpark.

Screenshot 2023-12-30 081852.jpg

[PackardV8]

Those of us who regularly drive EVs which have a true one-pedal operation are less likely to do that, as we are accustomed to only using the brake pedal in extreme emergencies caused by other drivers doing dumb things. In everyday driving, it's not uncommon to go a week without using the brakes. One-pedal-operation is a game changer.

[Tom68]

Those of us who regularly drive EVs which have a true one-pedal operation are less likely to do that, as we are accustomed to only using the brake pedal in extreme emergencies caused by other drivers doing dumb things. In everyday driving, it's not uncommon to go a week without using the brakes. One-pedal-operation is a game changer.

I was thinking that with Battery Trials bikes, they could have a throttle that rolls forwards giving you reverse, the tricks those blokes could do then would be something. Of course they'd be deadly to ride for mere mortals.

[gruntguru]

European Commission estimates: 85% of people live in urban areas
Critics of current UN figures, therefore, say that such varied definitions of ‘urban’ lead to a significant underestimation of the world’s urban population. Researchers from the European Commission, for example, reported that 85% of people live in urban areas.8

Its project, Atlas of the Human Planet, combines high-resolution satellite imagery with national census data to derive its estimates of urban and rural settlements.

The European Commission applied a universal definition of settlements across all countries:

Urban center: must have a minimum of 50,000 inhabitants plus a population density of at least 1500 people per square kilometre (km2) or density of build-up area greater than 50%.
Urban cluster: must have a minimum of 5,000 inhabitants plus a population density of at least 300 people per square kilometre (km2).
Rural: fewer than 5,000 inhabitants.
Using these definitions, it reports that 52% of the world lived in urban centers, 33% in urban clusters, and 15% in rural areas in 2015. This makes the total urban share 85% (more than 6.1 billion people). The reported urban share by continent is shown in the chart here.

https://ourworldindata.org/how-urban-is-the-world

[Belgian1979]

Making definitions like that can win any argument.
And the EU is known to be lying on more than one occassion to win a environmental stance discussion.

Attached a link to the 'City' of Peer with ca. 16k inhabitants. Sure is a big city isn't it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer,_Belgium
https://www.peer.be/

And there are many, many, many more examples of that.
Misrepresentations in order to push people into something that doesn't work will in all cases fail. The USSR has proven that a long time ago.
It sure as hell won't solve the charger or grid issues.

[skinny z]

It sure as hell won't solve the charger or grid issues.

And that is it, in a nutshell.
Love them or hate them, mandated use or chosen by free will, at this stage of the game, there simply isn't enough capacity to charge 2 billion electric vehicles. Which by the way is an estimate of the number of ICE vehicles on the road. Real or imagined.
And that's not taking into consideration how that electricity will be generated. In my neck of the woods, power generation is largely natural gas whereas on the other side of the same country it's nuclear or hydro. It's somewhat ironic that where I live we charge our cars with fossil fuels!
But that'll change.
The advent of the automobile didn't exactly coincide with proper roads either. Now we have highways.
As for protests, 100 years or so ago people rallied against power (telephone) poles lining the streets...

[PackardV8]

For true, Kevin. Off and on, I've been building engines for sixty years. Now, with the coming of EVs, I feel like the blacksmith standing at his forge hammering on a red hot horseshoe. He looks up and sees his first "horseless carriage" drive by. "Well, shite! That changes everything, don't it?"