EMC 2017 353ci SBC

[Amilcar]

Awesome accomplishment!!!

Results speaks a lot itself....

[Rick360]

Did not see any carbide burr finish anywhere in pictures i saw, what about intake manifold finish if you guys don't mind saying ? Thanks Mark, and congrats on you WIN !!!

The finish in the manifold ports was as my carbide cutter left the finish. It was not intentionally made rougher like I've seen pictures of or sanded with rolls. I don't think there is a difference and I don't like to waste time on something that doesn't make more power. The plenum and runner entrances were finished smooth with flapper wheels.

Rick

[Rick360]

to rick,randy and chad,
congratulations on your EMC win simply amazing
the time and effort into R and D over the course of the year leading up to EMC i suspect would be nothing short of exhausting in my opinion,to make 570 hp with a flat tappet cam as well as the rule restrictions that i read and also to peak at 6500rpm and the power does not fall off is way cool

Thanks. I wish we'd had a year to R&D but we didn't get official notification we were accepted until June. They were running very late last year. I think Adger may have PM'd me a little before that but it was a very short time. Buying parts didn't start til then. Being on a great team with guys all working on different parts and having a good plan with efficient and accurate testing was the only way it happened.

i worked out that the min CSA is approx 2.15'' with a 195 ish runner, is that a fair assessment ?
also the other thing i am curious about is was there an issue with getting rocker geometry where you needed it with the 1.8 - 1.85 rockers or was it simple enough,
and i really like that power through a set of tri y with a 2 1/2 collector and mufflers to boot
who would of thought.......
i hope randy and chad might chime in with some information about the lead up and days of the EMC,what is the atmosphere like,how are the other teams friendly i hope ??
it is all cloak and dagger type stuff
anyhow thank you rick for taking the time to share

steve c

The runner was around 195cc so the avg csa was about 2.15, the mcsa was probably a little smaller but definitely in that ballpark.

Rick

[randy331]

i hope randy and chad might chime in with some information about the lead up and days of the EMC,what is the atmosphere like,how are the other teams friendly i hope ??
it is all cloak and dagger type stuff

I wouldn't call it a cloak and dagger atmosphere at the EMC. All teams want to do well and win, that's why we enter.

But no, all I talked to were willing to share info etc.

At Tuesday night bowling party we sat with Preston Moser from BES, and we shared info on our emc engines and other projects. He was putting their engine on the dyno Wed. to try and bump us from first place, yet he was very open. Talked cams, springs, induction, etc. and bowled some low scores.

My 23 year old gear head son flew out on Sunday to be there on Monday when our team was on the dyno, he had such a good time he canceled his return flight and stayed all week and rode home in the Suburban with us.

Randy

[Walter R. Malik]

i hope randy and chad might chime in with some information about the lead up and days of the EMC,what is the atmosphere like,how are the other teams friendly i hope ??
it is all cloak and dagger type stuff

I wouldn't call it a cloak and dagger atmosphere at the EMC. All teams want to do well and win, that's why we enter.

But no, all I talked to were willing to share info etc.

At Tuesday night bowling party we sat with Preston Moser from BES, and we shared info on our emc engines and other projects. He was putting their engine on the dyno Wed. to try and bump us from first place, yet he was very open. Talked cams, springs, induction, etc. and bowled some low scores.

My 23 year old gear head son flew out on Sunday to be there on Monday when our team was on the dyno, he had such a good time he canceled his return flight and stayed all week and rode home in the Suburban with us.

Randy

I remember one contest at Bill Mitchel's, CompCams sent a knowledgeable woman as a representative and after being there for one day she asked a bunch of us ... "You guys are in competition with one another yet you are so helpful to one another; I don't get it...?"

The reply from someone at that table was ..."I want to beat everyone here in the worst way but, if they are not at their best ... it ain't worth much".

That has always been the attitude at that contest.

[swampbuggy]

To the winning team, i just wanted to be CLEAR on the way the dyno sheet is judged to determine the winner ? I am thinking the objective is the highest AVERAGE torque, is that correct ? Thanks Mark H.

[Rick360]

To the winning team, i just wanted to be CLEAR on the way the dyno sheet is judged to determine the winner ? I am thinking the objective is the highest AVERAGE torque, is that correct ? Thanks Mark H.

This year it went like this. They use Averge TQ and HP in the rpm range (3500-6800rpm for us this year). The dyno sheet has ** next to the first and last of the numbers used in the averages. You dyno multiple times and pick your 3 best runs and the score from each is averaged for your final score.

EMC Score=((Average TQ + Average HP) x 1000)/Cubic_Inch

Rick

[F-BIRD'88]

Nicely done. Were the Comp Cams flat tappet cam lobes used, from Comp's "MH" series cam lobes?

[Rick360]

What??? no low lift flow, how can that be. The build shows what thinking as opposed to robotically building or reading published bullshyt an engine is about. Well how much do you want to divulge,, by the time the valve hits .25 l/d your not far from max allowable lift so ill guess 86-87% throat, an intake lobe with more area on its back ,i know the mowtown has a little more avg csa than the super victor but a little less then the 2814 stock, what csa avreage did you end up with after porting. Would creason divulge rvk numbers, turn over tq, again good job guys, thinking about all the variables that effect how we think an engine actually breathes dynamically is alot more difficult then most people want to think about .

Tom

I don't remember the throat for sure but most heads don't come where they can be made 87%, so I think its 89-90%.
The Motown mainly needed opened up close to the head. The csa was near 3sqin at plenum oob and I didn't open it any there. I kept radius into runners on the small side but smooth. IIRC the avg of intake manifold was 2.4-2.5sqin.

The COMP lobes used were from the catalog.
Intake MH Solid # 6286 - 264(@.020) - 238(@.050) - 151(@.200) .345 lobe lift
Exhaust MA Lift Rule solid # 6243- 270(.020)-244(.050)-156(.200) .330" lobe lift

With flat tappet lifters you don't have the room/time to make opening or closing faster than the other. They need to open and close at the velocity limit the tappet diameter dictates.

I don't know if Joe will tell any secrets to profilometer numbers, but I think its what Total Seal recommends (I think I incorrectly said Sealed Power rings in first post).

Rick

[maxracesoftware]

Congratulations Rick and Team on EMC win !

Rick ,i have a few more questions , if you can answer ??

[1]=Braswell Carb CFM

[2]=Cam's installed CenterLine

[3]=What was your Valve's Hot Lash

[4]=Exhaust Port Flow CFM ( was it without a Flow Pipe )

[5]=Exhaust Port CC's

[swampbuggy]

Guys, i hope i am not asking too many questions, if you don't mind i would like to ask one more please ? Was the bore and stroke that you built into the engine by design for specific results (OR) were the parts mainly block already at your reach for use? Thanks Mark H. and CONGRATS again!!!!

[CGT]

Guys, i hope i am not asking too many questions, if you don't mind i would like to ask one more please ? Was the bore and stroke that you built into the engine by design for specific results (OR) were the parts mainly block already at your reach for use? Thanks Mark H. and CONGRATS again!!!!

Other bore and stroke combos were discussed. But the common stuff was chosen for cost, availability, simplicity and resale. Weird bore and stroke combos at the same cubes are pretty far down the list compared to proper induction, valve events, headers etc. That was the consensus.

[swampbuggy]

10-4 gotcha, again as so many have said THANK YOU gentlemen for so being so willing to share most of your build spec.'s Mark H.

[Rick360]

Congratulations Rick and Team on EMC win !

Rick ,i have a few more questions , if you can answer ??

[1]=Braswell Carb CFM

[2]=Cam's installed CenterLine

[3]=What was your Valve's Hot Lash

[4]=Exhaust Port Flow CFM ( was it without a Flow Pipe )

[5]=Exhaust Port CC's

1. 1.75 throttle bore (max per rules) and 1.47 (i think) venturi so it would be around 800 ?? Tried a little bigger Braswell and it didn't gain anything up top and made it less happy coming into the pull so went back to the smaller Braswell.
2. 101ICL
3. .014/.016
4. Don't know, not sure if Randy ever flowed exhaust.
5. Don't know, not sure if Randy ever cc'd exhaust. Not much over cast size, the ex ports at flange were already too big IMO.

Rick

[maxracesoftware]

1. 1.75 throttle bore (max per rules) and 1.47 (i think) venturi so it would be around 800 ?? Tried a little bigger Braswell and it didn't gain anything up top and made it less happy coming into the pull so went back to the smaller Braswell.
2. 101ICL
3. .014/.016
4. Don't know, not sure if Randy ever flowed exhaust.
5. Don't know, not sure if Randy ever cc'd exhaust. Not much over cast size, the ex ports at flange were already too big IMO.

Rick

thanks Rick for your answers !

... just 1 more question i forgot to ask ,
what was the Air/Fuel Ratio at 6500 RPM ... if that was recorded by EMC ??