Synthetic oil for Flat Tappet cams

[lorax]

I wish I had a dollar for everytime 540 has posted that useless list on the internet, here and every other site that would let him.
Over and over. Talk about a total waste of band width

You have no idea what you are talking about. I dare you to "prove" with real data, that my list is useless. Put up or shut up, as they say

540 RAT

I know Rat, its all a zinc conspiracy put on by the oil companies and cam grinders because they all have big investments in zinc commodities, and we can't see that becasue our foil hats aren't tuned in properly

[Barry Burch]

If your cam doesnt die. Then whose got the biggest one does not matter.

[stokerboats]

Rick, as you know the next one will have EZX's so the zinc will become a moot issue of course. I am however baffled by the disclaimer I shared with you from T&D machine. I was perplexed by that one and would love to hear their side of the story on that one. Dan

[stokerboats]

Rick,
I just thought I would do a follow up on my last post and would share it. I called T&D, spoke with Sheldon about that disclaimer on the newer SN rated oil's and his comment was that because the roller tip on the rockers are not bearings or bushings but metal to metal their concern is that the initial wear in is done with high zinc/phosphate break in oil. He also said that this is the reason they ask the consumer not to soak the rockers in oil prior to running them. The grease they use contains a very expensive mixture of zinc/phosphate for the break in process. He says that they like to see a high zinc racing oil such as the Joe Gibbs break in oil used while the engine is being broken in. After the engine is broken in the high zinc/phosphate is no longer necessary and the newer oils such as those you present on your list are then adequate for lubrication.
Regards, Dan

[swatson454]

Rick,
I just thought I would do a follow up on my last post and would share it. I called T&D, spoke with Sheldon about that disclaimer on the newer SN rated oil's and his comment was that because the roller tip on the rockers are not bearings or bushings but metal to metal their concern is that the initial wear in is done with high zinc/phosphate break in oil. He also said that this is the reason they ask the consumer not to soak the rockers in oil prior to running them. The grease they use contains a very expensive mixture of zinc/phosphate for the break in process. He says that they like to see a high zinc racing oil such as the Joe Gibbs break in oil used while the engine is being broken in. After the engine is broken in the high zinc/phosphate is no longer necessary and the newer oils such as those you present on your list are then adequate for lubrication.
Regards, Dan

Obviously another conspiracy theorist with stocks in zinc

[dirtracr5]

RAT gonna ruin another post with his mindless banter? His test IS IN FACT worthless! I dare him to prove otherwise...

[pdq67]

I don't believe this SH*T, you guys throwing stones at 540 Rat!!

We should thank him for his help instead... Take it with a grain of salt and go on, and, as always jmho....



You want to know what really bothers me is that our F** GOV. say's fiberglass is harmless, although classified by the EPA along with mineral wool and refractory ceramic fiber as being toxic, whereas asbestos is a killer!!!

Do a PM2.5 check after a bunch of tornados go through and you will find that almost all the PM2.5 in the air that we breathe is FIBERGLASS!!!

Now, BTTT, the oils... If I was an*l, I'd run Mobil 1, some EOS and a 1/2 of a 1/2 pint of 100 percent pure Soy Diesel!! BUT I'm not oil an*l because I run W/W's el-cheapo Tech2000 crap....I've ran this stuff commuting on the 4-lane back and forth to work up to 12,500 miles fine and was using their cheap filter to boot......

I once worked with a guy that didn't have a "pot to piss in" except for his wife's paycheck AND he bought the most expensive oil he could buy!! Hell if it cost's that much, it has to be F** GOOD was his reply....

pdq67

[stokerboats]

I have the utmost respect for 540 Rat and his testing. I don't really understand all the contempt for his testing. I understand why he has done his testing and it sure isn't for financial gain. He is selling nothing but his findings.

[pdq67]

540 Rat,

What is the base stock that creates ROIL???

pdq67

[rally]

I have the utmost respect for 540 Rat and his testing. I don't really understand all the contempt for his testing. I understand why he has done his testing and it sure isn't for financial gain. He is selling nothing but his findings.

Well said. i agree. RAT comes clean with engine testing it sells his product he is pushing to use on flat tappett cams.

[GARY C]

Has anybody ever though or compute the actual contact patch of a flat tappet cam when the tappet is going over the nose. Meaning, if you were to stop everthing still and could measure contact area. I think it would be .003 wide and around .175 in length. Not much area and a reasonable mech cam thats around 320 to 340 lbs. open pressure. Working math out to come up with psi ? I'm probably thinking to hard about this, but its food for though and I like hotrod engines.

I remember some very high numbers being quoted in the thousands per square inch (16,000 comes to mind) and the temperature between the lifter and cam is way higher than normal oil temps... I will see what I can find out and will post the actual numbers if I can find them.

I found this in an article.

"The Quest For Stability
At the high end, racers have always wanted quicker cams, higher lift cams, and longer duration. But to realize the full benefits of a quick, high-lift cam requires a stable valvetrain. As Chase Knight at Crane Cams puts it, "Anytime you can get the valve to do what the cam signals it to do repeatedly, you've made significant gains." Initially, huge lift was generated by upping the 1.5:1 to 1.7:1 rocker ratios common 10 to 15 years ago to as high as 2:1. This first occurred in NASCAR where flat-tappets are mandatory, but eventually spread to roller-cam apps as well. Unfortunately, the higher the rocker ratio, the more the force multiplication on the tappet side of the pushrod: With a 2,000-pound inertial load, the load on the pushrod side is 3,000 pounds with a 1.5:1 ratio but 4,000 pounds with a 2:1 ratio. Even though pushrods got stiffer (Pro Stock diameters are more than 1/2 inch, and some Top Fuelers even use solid pushrods), shaft-mount rocker arms replaced stud-mounted independent rockers, and vastly improved valvesprings became available, it still wasn't enough to prevent valvetrain flex. The problems weren't just confined to Pro Stockers and Fuelers. "Even Super Stock Hemi guys running 800 pounds on the seat and 1,200 pounds open with 1.875:1 rocker ratios at 9,500 rpm had this problem," says valvetrain expert Dan Jesel. "People didn't realize how bad their pieces were until they got a Spintron," Knight adds.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... z2W3LDcroc

And this one.
Around the time of the flat-tappet lifter shortage, motor oil wasexperiencing its own changes. Engines with flat-tappet cams haveextremely high pressure loading at the contact point between the liftercrown and the cam lobe. According to Mark Ferner, team leader for QuakerState Motor Oil Research and Development, "Even stock passenger cars cansee pressure in excess of 200,000 psi at the point of flat-tappet/camlobe contact." To prevent excess wear, traditional motor oil included agenerous dose of antiwear additives, primarily zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). "The chemistry is such that the additive is acombination of zinc and phosphorous," says Rockett Racing Fuel's TimWusz. "Typically the phosphate amounts are about 75 percent of the zincamounts. For example, if there was 0.100 percent zinc by weight in themotor oil, then the phosphate is about 0.075."

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... z2W3MCQTBA

[pdq67]

OK,

Let's do this!!

Ask UDHarold to send you a copy of the BBC solid flat tappet lifter cam that duplicates CC's great old 288AR solid street roller because it's in my bedroom closet now!!

(278/249/161, 110/106, .618" and need's .018" hot lash)....

I have CC's great old 282 solid cam in my 496 tow-truck engine now and I figure with UDHarolds cam I will gain, MAYBE a 100 hp??

Now that I finally retired, I gotta get back at my car...................... It's been dam near 12 years....

pdq67

[plovett]

I wish I had a dollar for everytime 540 has posted that useless list on the internet, here and every other site that would let him.
Over and over. Talk about a total waste of band width

You have no idea what you are talking about. I dare you to "prove" with real data, that my list is useless. Put up or shut up, as they say

540 RAT

Could you possibly just post a link to your list instead of posting the actual huge list of data every time?

paulie

[Cubic_Cleveland]

Could you possibly just post a link to your list instead of posting the actual huge list of data every time?

paulie

X10000000000!!!!

Also Rat, how are you converting from a "wear scar" to a psi number to rank these oils?

[540 RAT]

Has anybody ever though or compute the actual contact patch of a flat tappet cam when the tappet is going over the nose. Meaning, if you were to stop everthing still and could measure contact area. I think it would be .003 wide and around .175 in length. Not much area and a reasonable mech cam thats around 320 to 340 lbs. open pressure. Working math out to come up with psi ? I'm probably thinking to hard about this, but its food for though and I like hotrod engines.

The psi values do not directly compare between my test data and an actual engine. My tester is designed to subject motor oil to worst case torture testing in order to see how the oils perform at their absolute limit. Engines, even flat tappet engines, do not subject motor oil to such extreme loads. Therefore, you cannot compare the psi values straight across, since you would be comparing apples to oranges.

I compare oil to oil, head to head, so that we can see how they compare to each other. The better an oil's test value psi, the better it will protect an engine.

540 RAT