Hey guys,building a 383 cube cleveland. the usual route is to fit the Moroso restrictor kit when using solid cams to limit oil flow to the cam bearings etc in order that some of the lost pressure is used to feed the mains. Here is the dilemma. I,m not sure restricting oil to the cam bngs is such a good idea in the first place.Given that i may use a solid roller i would imagine that the bearing needs adequate lube .I would much rather sleeve the lifter bore on the feed side as this would alleviate a lot of the internal oil leak.I would appreciate any input.
cheers,russ
351 cleveland oiling questions
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Gary Blair
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Re: 351 cleveland oiling questions
Russ,russxr67 wrote:Hey guys,building a 383 cube cleveland. the usual route is to fit the Moroso restrictor kit when using solid cams to limit oil flow to the cam bearings etc in order that some of the lost pressure is used to feed the mains. Here is the dilemma. I,m not sure restricting oil to the cam bngs is such a good idea in the first place.Given that i may use a solid roller i would imagine that the bearing needs adequate lube .I would much rather sleeve the lifter bore on the feed side as this would alleviate a lot of the internal oil leak.I would appreciate any input.
cheers,russ
Is this a race only engine?
For what it's worth, you'll have to intstall lifter bushings and then reduce the oild galley size do to that fact otherwise the sump in the pan will run dry fast than you can imagine. 460 Fords require this modification as well with solid rollers.
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Gary Blair
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lifter bushings
The main modification you need to do is reduce all internal leaks. The easiest mod for all Ford V-8's is to plug the oil access hole hole in #1 main sadle with a 5/16 18 set screw. This hole is drilled during manufacture to intersect the cross galley from the filter pad to oil #1 cam bearing. The next mod is sleeve the #1 main bearing feed from 1/2" down to 5/16. These simple mods will direct more oil to the distribitor gear and throughout the oil system.
Lifter bushings aren't always needed. It depends on th eapplication. When going to a roller cam application on a Ford 335 or 385, if you install the lifters backwards (link bar facing down) the pump will send a large quantity of oil to the heads and most likely empty the oil pan.
Like Chuck says do not use an external oil line from the front main feed to the rear oil pressure tap. It does absoultly nothing and will cause a large volume of oil to be drawn away from the front of the engine.
On cam bearing restrictors. If it is a race only engine I would recommend a 5/16 set screw with a .093 hole. For the left side lifter oil feed I would use a .125 restrictor.
Lifter bushings aren't always needed. It depends on th eapplication. When going to a roller cam application on a Ford 335 or 385, if you install the lifters backwards (link bar facing down) the pump will send a large quantity of oil to the heads and most likely empty the oil pan.
Like Chuck says do not use an external oil line from the front main feed to the rear oil pressure tap. It does absoultly nothing and will cause a large volume of oil to be drawn away from the front of the engine.
On cam bearing restrictors. If it is a race only engine I would recommend a 5/16 set screw with a .093 hole. For the left side lifter oil feed I would use a .125 restrictor.
Re: lifter bushings
Sorry ,I should have mentioned that this is not a race engine at all . The plan is to build a tough street / strip engine in the order of 550 hp.Gary Blair wrote:The main modification you need to do is reduce all internal leaks. The easiest mod for all Ford V-8's is to plug the oil access hole hole in #1 main sadle with a 5/16 18 set screw. This hole is drilled during manufacture to intersect the cross galley from the filter pad to oil #1 cam bearing. The next mod is sleeve the #1 main bearing feed from 1/2" down to 5/16. These simple mods will direct more oil to the distribitor gear and throughout the oil system.
Lifter bushings aren't always needed. It depends on th eapplication. When going to a roller cam application on a Ford 335 or 385, if you install the lifters backwards (link bar facing down) the pump will send a large quantity of oil to the heads and most likely empty the oil pan.
Like Chuck says do not use an external oil line from the front main feed to the rear oil pressure tap. It does absoultly nothing and will cause a large volume of oil to be drawn away from the front of the engine.
On cam bearing restrictors. If it is a race only engine I would recommend a 5/16 set screw with a .093 hole. For the left side lifter oil feed I would use a .125 restrictor.
Fwiw ,i have already bushed down the number 1 feed . I will as per your recommendation block the other cam feed . I plan on running either a solid roller or a solid flat in the engine of approx 650 lift with CHI 185 small port heads. Would the Moroso restrictors be of any use in an engine like this?
thanx,russ
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Gary Blair
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Moroso
I wouldn't recommend the Moroso restrictor kit for a street engine. Use a good quality baffled oil pan with increased capacity and a std volume oil pump.
Unless you are going to rev this engine (6500+), I wouldn't bother with any restrictors but I would use a HV pump....the extra capacity is worth more than restrictors.
The whole cleveland oiling issue is abit over-rated imo. Your from aussie...there are 1000's of them running round there.....have you ever heard of anyone with bearing issues?
I have built quite afew of them over the years, some with restrictors, some without and have had no problems oiling wise....apart from pumping the pan dry. Pay attention to the drainbacks from the heads (they rarely line up properly) and add a decent pan with extra capacity.
The whole cleveland oiling issue is abit over-rated imo. Your from aussie...there are 1000's of them running round there.....have you ever heard of anyone with bearing issues?
I have built quite afew of them over the years, some with restrictors, some without and have had no problems oiling wise....apart from pumping the pan dry. Pay attention to the drainbacks from the heads (they rarely line up properly) and add a decent pan with extra capacity.
I raced Clevelands for too many years, and never did anything more than the plug in #1 main, .125" restrictor for left side lifter bank, no restrictors for the cam bearings, and drill the oil inlet hole to match the pump (BIG ledge otherwise).
I used a std. volume pump with about .187" shorter gears and a high pressure relief spring (linear pressure curve vs. running in relief all the time).
I raced fairly regularly for about 12 seasons and never experienced any form of an oiling concern.
Bearing clearances were always set between .002"-.0025" on both rods and mains, and trap RPM (depending on iteration) was never lower than 7500 and mostly above 8K.
I used a std. volume pump with about .187" shorter gears and a high pressure relief spring (linear pressure curve vs. running in relief all the time).
I raced fairly regularly for about 12 seasons and never experienced any form of an oiling concern.
Bearing clearances were always set between .002"-.0025" on both rods and mains, and trap RPM (depending on iteration) was never lower than 7500 and mostly above 8K.
To answer simply...YEShave you ever heard of anyone with bearing issues?
almost anyone I know that is making reasonable power with a cleveland has bearing issues.
IMO they require alot more mantainance then other breeds. I came to the conclusion the oil phasing on the OEM crank was incorrect, however an aftermrket crank will fix alot of the issues.
As for the oil feed tube from front to rear, I doubt it does any harm, the way I see it is most BE failures ocurr on the 3/7 so the tube helps equalize oil pressure.
There is a common oil mod that is practiced which involves cutting an oil passage in behind the main bearing & redrilling the main feed in the bearing.
But Russ in an attempt to answer your original question on the moroso oil restrictor kit, it will be fine on the street, I fit them to all solid engines with absolutely zero cam bearing, or valvetrain failures.
Also steer clear of the moroso hi pressure relief spring, IT BREAKS PUMPS..
Gonna put in a couple cents here. I ran a 351C in SS/J for several years and for three of those years held both ends of the record with home built engines.
A stock Cleveland oiling system works well up to 7,000 or so. At anything over 8500 the rod bearings were burnt toast unless considerable work was applied. Oh yeah.... those days SS'ers had to use stock cranks, rods and valves. Rods and valves were their weak spots.
The restrictors don't hurt anything but aren't necessary. I used to mill 90 degree grooves on the back side of the cam bearings. At the upper end of the grooves drill .062 oil feed holes. The bottom side of the groove sat over the oil hole coming from the mains. the original oil slots sat at the top of the cam bore and didn't connect to anything. I didn't worry about dist. lube on the first cam brg. since i was running an Accel distributor and the lower shaft was smaller than stock didn't even touch the block.
My oiling system was similar to the one offered by HTC but with considerable improvements. If anyone is interested PM me and I will give details.... way too much to post if no one is interested. Also not legal now in SS.
A stock Cleveland oiling system works well up to 7,000 or so. At anything over 8500 the rod bearings were burnt toast unless considerable work was applied. Oh yeah.... those days SS'ers had to use stock cranks, rods and valves. Rods and valves were their weak spots.
The restrictors don't hurt anything but aren't necessary. I used to mill 90 degree grooves on the back side of the cam bearings. At the upper end of the grooves drill .062 oil feed holes. The bottom side of the groove sat over the oil hole coming from the mains. the original oil slots sat at the top of the cam bore and didn't connect to anything. I didn't worry about dist. lube on the first cam brg. since i was running an Accel distributor and the lower shaft was smaller than stock didn't even touch the block.
My oiling system was similar to the one offered by HTC but with considerable improvements. If anyone is interested PM me and I will give details.... way too much to post if no one is interested. Also not legal now in SS.
Last edited by SupStk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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joe
Make sure you/your engine builder don't knock the front cam bearing too far back.
there is a groove there that feeds the cam retainer / timing gear , under the front cam bearing. Ford specs say it should be .003 back from the face of the block.
If anyone knocks the front cam bearing in too far this will result in oil practically flooding the timing chain and thereby depriving the mains/rods.
there is a groove there that feeds the cam retainer / timing gear , under the front cam bearing. Ford specs say it should be .003 back from the face of the block.
If anyone knocks the front cam bearing in too far this will result in oil practically flooding the timing chain and thereby depriving the mains/rods.