Wideband Tuning for Carbureted Drag Racing

[automotive breath]

I realize this is sales pitch, but interesting none the less. Anybody using this technology?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/Stan1.php

[airflowdevelop]

Why do you say interesting?

I don't know how in todays world, you could live without a WB02.

I have used many of the cheaper boxes with good results, including the innovate, even with injected alcohol.

What do you want to know?

Dennis

[automotive breath]

...I don't know how in todays world, you could live without a WB02....
Dennis

The first 50 years was relatively easy, it's the next 50 that concerns me. What's a good low buck unit? Any tricks to make the O2 sensor last?

[Doug Schriefer]

The Innovate units are Great for the money.

They can really help dial in a combination especially when you're working on drivability issues. We use a number of different systems, and the innovates are extremely accurate, and last as well if not better than most other units.

[BritishTurbo]

Why do you say interesting?

I don't know how in todays world, you could live without a WB02.

I have used many of the cheaper boxes with good results, including the innovate, even with injected alcohol.

What do you want to know?

Dennis

Amen to that!

A wideband is the most overlooked tool in the days of EFI... even int he days of Carbs it's very overlooked...

I do a lot of standalone EFI tuning, and always tell people they HAVE to get a wideband.... I run a TechEdge in my car and love it...
Being able to run in closed loop under boost and tune on the fly under boost is awesome...

[airflowdevelop]

[The first 50 years was relatively easy, it's the next 50 that concerns me. What's a good low buck unit? Any tricks to make the O2 sensor last?[/quote]

AB,
The purpose of these tools is to make the next 50 years easier.

Some tips...no exhaust leaks ...
Make sure the sensor is warm before running the motor.
lead does not really mess with a sensor, as long as you are not pig rich.
Proplyne glycol, and other glyceretes (SP?) will KILL the sensor almost immediately.

If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask. Nothing wrong with the innovate or tech edge. If you would like it calibrated, I have a LAB-1 for calibration, if it is that critical for your app.
Dennis

[Doug Schriefer]

If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask. Nothing wrong with the innovate or tech edge. If you would like it calibrated, I have a LAB-1 for calibration, if it is that critical for your app.
Dennis

Do you calibrate the individual sensors or the complete unit (sensor and head) ?

[Whitewater Racer]

" What's a good low buck unit? Any tricks to make the O2 sensor last?"

We use the Innovate unit. The replacement O² sensors we buy locally at one of the import specialists for about $55. We run them in a header collector in front of a Dynatech muffler unit, so we use the heat sink to keep the heat manageable. We use them in a twin carbureted (tunnel ram) / dry exhaust Marathon Jetboat motor running on Sunoco 110 LEADED fuel. The sensor will last for approx 15-20 hours running time. Figures out to about $3.50 / hour for sensor cost. Which translates to one of the LOWEST costs involved with running the motor We run at several different locations and altitudes so we just recalibrate the sensor(involves taking the sensor out and letting it be in "free" air and then pushing the calibrate button on the main unit) when we get to the "venue". We usually start the motor and let it run for a second or two before switching on the sensor to make sure any accumulated condensation or any other liquids are blown free. Liquid contact shatters the sensing unit in the sensor real quick

[BritishTurbo]

[The first 50 years was relatively easy, it's the next 50 that concerns me. What's a good low buck unit? Any tricks to make the O2 sensor last?

AB,
The purpose of these tools is to make the next 50 years easier.

Some tips...no exhaust leaks ...
Make sure the sensor is warm before running the motor.
lead does not really mess with a sensor, as long as you are not pig rich.
Proplyne glycol, and other glyceretes (SP?) will KILL the sensor almost immediately.

If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask. Nothing wrong with the innovate or tech edge. If you would like it calibrated, I have a LAB-1 for calibration, if it is that critical for your app.
Dennis[/quote]

I have a small leak in my exhaust post turbo, but it only effects it at idle I believe...

I would like to take you up on that wideband calibration! Next time I'm down there I'll do that, should have done it when I was down there last...

Another few things that will kill a wideband sensor:

1.) Oil... had a turbo go bad and drench the sensor...
2.) Heater circuit failure - Had a wire break in the TechEdge unit, thus stopping the heater from working.

The current sensor has had no problems... And the sensor is only around $40 from a VW dealer anyhow...

[automotive breath]

The Innovate units are Great for the money.

They can really help dial in a combination especially when you're working on drivability issues. We use a number of different systems, and the innovates are extremely accurate, and last as well if not better than most other units.

What a/f ratio change can be expected with a jet change of one number all the way around?

[rustbucket79]

Will the sensor read correctly when installed in a header collector with no exhaust or does it need some tail pipe to keep outside air from reaching it during the run?

[Doug Schriefer]

The Innovate units are Great for the money.

They can really help dial in a combination especially when you're working on drivability issues. We use a number of different systems, and the innovates are extremely accurate, and last as well if not better than most other units.

What a/f ratio change can be expected with a jet change of one number all the way around?

It will vary depending carburetor sizing, tune-up, and engine. On most applications 1 jet size is worth about 4 lbs/hr when tuning.

[automotive breath]

...It will vary depending carburetor sizing, tune-up, and engine. On most applications 1 jet size is worth about 4 lbs/hr when tuning.

Stick with me on this one; maybe if you helped me with the math I could understand the concept.

I have a 355 SBC with a 750 SCFM carb; jets are 82's square with no power valves. The RPM range is 5500 to 7500. Approximately what is my AFR and what would it be with 81's square
.

[Doug Schriefer]

...It will vary depending carburetor sizing, tune-up, and engine. On most applications 1 jet size is worth about 4 lbs/hr when tuning.

Stick with me on this one; maybe if you helped me with the math I could understand the concept.

I have a 355 SBC with a 750 SCFM carb; jets are 82's square with no power valves. The RPM range is 5500 to 7500. Approximately what is my AFR and what would it be with 81's square
.

Way too many variables there to give a number like. You'd really need to actually check it.

[jacksoni]

If you know the power and BSFC and BSAC you could figure fuel flow/ g air consumption and current AFR and then back calculate the change from Tech@BG's 4lbs/hr per jet size and make a guess. Starting with a known AFR would make it better but this is for sure a bunch of work and lot of variables as other things may mess you up. Besides, you are talking a drag car. Who cares what the AFR really is if the car goes down the track faster? (Aside from rich to cool mixture or other issues) If one car has best performance at 12.5 and another at 13.1, so what? Anyway, there are a lot of Wide band gadgets out there, some better than others, some more expensive than others and some UEGO's out there, some better and more expensive than others. The Innovate seems to be pretty good, certainly as an entry level device(from what I read- I have one but not used it yet.)