"U.S. Crankshaft", by Scat........

[machine shop tom]

I just received my "Engine Builder" magazine the other day. It came with a flyer or catalog rack insert from U.S Crankshaft, apparently a division or new name for Scat. The products in the flyer are billet and forged crankshafts.

To me the name "U.S. Crankshaft" implies that the products sold are U.S. made. But there is no indication that the products in the flyer are any different than the imported items already offered by Scat. I will say that the machining is apparently done in the U.S., but the raw pieces are "the finest billet material in the world".

Now, I may be splitting hairs here, but shouldn't one be able to expect that something labeled as a "U.S. Crankshaft" product be something that is actually MADE in the U.S.?

tom

[DCK]

I agree. I don't think that's expecting too much. Misleading to me if they are not totally made here. There's a lot of misrepresentation in the market nowadays and it would be nice to start seeing things go the other way.

[CamKing]

but shouldn't one be able to expect that something labeled as a "U.S. Crankshaft" product be something that is actually MADE in the U.S.?

What does "Made" mean??
If the cranks are rough machined, heat treated, and finish machind in the US, does that make the made in the US?
Does the casting or Forging also have to be from the US?
Does the raw material have to be from the US?
Do the minerals that make the material have to be mined in the US?

I've made parts from EN30B, and had to purchase the material from England. Everything done to the raw material was done in the US. Where those parts made in the US?
I've made parts from US material, but the Blue Prints were done in England. Are those parts made in the US?

[machine shop tom]

but shouldn't one be able to expect that something labeled as a "U.S. Crankshaft" product be something that is actually MADE in the U.S.?

What does "Made" mean??
If the cranks are rough machined, heat treated, and finish machind in the US, does that make the made in the US?
Does the casting or Forging also have to be from the US?
Does the raw material have to be from the US?
Do the minerals that make the material have to be mined in the US?

I've made parts from EN30B, and had to purchase the material from England. Everything done to the raw material was done in the US. Where those parts made in the US?
I've made parts from US material, but the Blue Prints were done in England. Are those parts made in the US?

You bring up some good points, Mike, and I don't disagree with them. Look at "domestic" automobiles.......

It should be simple. Products that are are sourced (from raw material) and manufactured--start to finish--should be labeled or marketed as U.S.A.-made. Products that are not should not be allowed to be marketed in a manner that would lead one to think that they are.

I'm sure that Scat sees this grey area as a loophole to fog the issue. I think they would have been more ethical had they just marketed these billet and forged crankshafts as "Scat's Premium Billet and Forged Cranshafts".

Had they done so, I wouldn't have even brought this up.

tom

[Speedbump]

Could be nothing more than an insidious attempt to make us smarter consumers. We survived it with booze. Most scotch isn't made in Scotland, etc., but I hear the best still is. In tequila, where "hecho in Mexico" is a badge, having it left off is disaster. Some of the distillers are working around this by having it "made in Mexico-bottled in the U.S. Shipped in bulk and who knows what else? We should be as smart and forward thinking as the Jim Beam guy who got a law passed that says you can't call it bourbon unless it's made in Kentucky. Guess that's why Jack Daniels can be sour mash, but it ain't bourbon, it's whisky. Go figure....

[CamKing]

In tequila, where "hecho in Mexico" is a badge, having it left off is disaster.

Actually, it can't be called Tequila unless it comes from the Mexican state of Jalisco. Anywhere else, and it has to be labeled something else(mescal).

[Speedbump]

You're correct and it also has to be 51% minimum agave. It's an international law and we respect it. Seems like we could get something like that going in the go fast business. Wouldn't it be cool if all forgings had to meet a minimum material and process standard before they could be called such?

[Engguy]

I guess the smart thing to do would be to toss em all in a furnace to melt em down, add or subtract the proper elements. Reform the billet and start over. Yeah over simplified. If the billet is from china, you have no idea what kind of inclusions or other impurities are in it. I suppose it would be an okay product for the average go to work and the store car.

[CamKing]

If the billet is from china, you have no idea what kind of inclusions or other impurities are in it.

And the same could be said for Mexico, Canida, and Michigan.
There is plenty of crappy material made right here in the good ol' USA.
That's why I order Certified Aircraft Quality material, but that doesn't make it any more american then the crappy material I could buy from the same U.S. vendor.

You can buy american material that's just as bad as the Stuff from China.
You can get heat treating done in the US that's just as bad as what's beeing done in China.

[machine shop tom]

If the billet is from china, you have no idea what kind of inclusions or other impurities are in it.

And the same could be said for Mexico, Canida, and Michigan.
There is plenty of crappy material made right here in the good ol' USA.
That's why I order Certified Aircraft Quality material, but that doesn't make it any more american then the crappy material I could buy from the same U.S. vendor.

You can buy american material that's just as bad as the Stuff from China.
You can get heat treating done in the US that's just as bad as what's beeing done in China.

Regardless of crappy a product may or may not be, the consumer has the right to know of it's origin so he may have the choice of contributing or not to an entity he may or not favor.

tom

[PFC1]

Kind of reminds me of a recent block I looked at.... and asked the rep where it was cast. "New Zealand" he said, wrong as we all know it was cast in China. The rep tells me "I was told it was cast in New Zealand".

Why won't people just be up front?

Bret

[CamKing]

Regardless of crappy a product may or may not be, the consumer has the right to know of it's origin so he may have the choice of contributing or not to an entity he may or not favor.

The origin of What?
Where the minerals were mined?
Where those minerals were combined into a material?
Where the materials were formed into a forging, casting, or bar stock?
Where those forgings, castings, or bar stock were warehoused?
Where the parts were machined?
Where the equipment used to machine the parts were made?
Where the people running the machine were from?
Where the heat treating was done?
Where te heat treating machine was made?
Where everyone's tools were made?

Wen I buy steel from good ol' american EMJ, i'm sure some of their vendors are not in the US.

[machine shop tom]

Regardless of crappy a product may or may not be, the consumer has the right to know of it's origin so he may have the choice of contributing or not to an entity he may or not favor.

The origin of What?
Where the minerals were mined?
Where those minerals were combined into a material?
Where the materials were formed into a forging, casting, or bar stock?
Where those forgings, castings, or bar stock were warehoused?
Where the parts were machined?
Where the equipment used to machine the parts were made?
Where the people running the machine were from?
Where the heat treating was done?
Where te heat treating machine was made?
Where everyone's tools were made?

Wen I buy steel from good ol' american EMJ, i'm sure some of their vendors are not in the US.

Are you annoying by nature or is it by choice?

tom

[F1Fever]

This reminds me of a little "jug" of candy I had the other day,
It was called "Florida's Natural" All natural No sugar added .. or something along those lines... so being the brand was Florida's Natural and it was big and bold I assumed it was Florida fruit, made in the usa.. but in little tiny fine print on the side bottom of the carton, and I mean tiny, it said, and I quote, "Responsibly made in China" .. I was appalled.

so I agree totally, these products should be labeled as such .. ie " Forged in China, machined in the USA" or what not.... and not just labeled, but labeled by law, just as the Bourbon and Tequila mentioned earlier (and for the record, you won't see me advocating many new laws be added to the books).

[Engguy]

Regardless of crappy a product may or may not be, the consumer has the right to know of it's origin so he may have the choice of contributing or not to an entity he may or not favor.

The origin of What?
Where the minerals were mined?
Where those minerals were combined into a material?
Where the materials were formed into a forging, casting, or bar stock?
Where those forgings, castings, or bar stock were warehoused?
Where the parts were machined?
Where the equipment used to machine the parts were made?
Where the people running the machine were from?
Where the heat treating was done?
Where te heat treating machine was made?
Where everyone's tools were made?

Wen I buy steel from good ol' american EMJ, i'm sure some of their vendors are not in the US.

All that matters is who melted and poured and formed it. Who cares where the raw material came from. The important thing is who is controlling the chemistry, and the purity of the material. If mexico china or who ever wants to sell parts here they should just ship back to the US or a country that has outfits that know how to do it properly, the scrap that we and other countries send to them.