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Cam Selection for 327 Kinsler-Lucas powered Kellison

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Cam Selection for 327 Kinsler-Lucas powered Kellison

Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:01 pm

Hi folks,
We're restoring a vintage Kellison with a Kinsler-Lucas Mechanical injected 327(331). Advice for the cam selection would be much appreciated. This is what we are working with:

1969 GM 3970010 Block 4 bolt main, 4.030 Bore
1969 GM 3914681 3.25 inch stroke Crank L.J. Forged std.
Crower SP93207B L.J. 6.125” Connecting Rods
Wiseco PT006H3 Forged Pistons 4032 alloy, 8.00cc Dome, 1.260 C.H.
9.025” Deck Ht.
0.015” Deck Clearance
0.024” Compressed Gasket
0.039” Piston-Head Clearance
11.54 to 1 Compression
Brodix-8 Heads 2.05 int valve, 1.62 exh valve, 210 int vol, 64cc chambers
At 28”
Int Exh
.200 141 109
.300 190 135
.400 237 152
.500 250 158
.600 259 162
.700 259 163
Crower 73601 7/16, 1.5 ratio S/S Enduro Rockers
1 ¾” x 44 primary headers w/dual 3” race mufflers
Kinsler-Lucas Mechanical Fuel Injection, tall 2.25” diameter stacks with injectors mounted in high position
4-speed manual transmission
4.10 rear axle with 28” tire
Estimated final weight at 2650#

We are considering Comp Cams 290AS-14 Solid Lifter cam.
Int Exh
Duration@0.050 255 265
Lift(1.5 rockers) 0.540 0.563
Lobe Sep Angle 114*

The Kellison will see limited street "show off" duty and vintage road race events. Anticipating 6500 rpm peak horsepower with 7000 rpm max for durability.
What do you think? Any Kinsler-Lucas experience out there?
Thanks
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Postby trmnatr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm

I would rather see about a 260/268 @.050 on a 106

You would make peak around ~6500 IMO

Can you run the lobe seperation tight with that injection unit?

That set up should RUN VERY WELL, long rod too !
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Postby CamKing » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:58 pm

I'd go with a roller, but if you want to stick with a flat tappet, I recommend my part# M75369TL-79362-108
252/260@.050"
.369"/.362" Lobe Lift
108 LSA
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Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:09 pm

Thanks trmnatr,
It is my understanding a wide LSA is needed with the injection to help prevent reversion. The cam listed is actually listed as a "blower" cam. I'm assuming it will pick up some low rpm response with the wide LSA, but unsure what I would be giving up.
Bob
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Postby ProPower engines » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:15 pm

What fuel are you planning to run?
Gas or alky?
Is the throttle plates 2 3/16"?
We had a similar engine in a limited sprint and we used a Isky#547-B 108 LSA
Made tons of power from 3000-7200.
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Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:15 pm

Thanks Mike,
I'm with you on the roller, but "old school" takes priority on this one. What is your take on the wide LSA with the injection? Am I focusing too much on it?
Bob
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Postby CamKing » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:35 pm

Vintrcr wrote:Thanks Mike,
I'm with you on the roller, but "old school" takes priority on this one. What is your take on the wide LSA with the injection? Am I focusing too much on it?
Bob


Almost every 406ci Injected Sprint car engine runs a 108 LSA with cams in the 260's @.050". Most every 305 injected sprint car engine runs a 106 LSA with cams in the 250's @.050".

Why would you have reversion on an injected engine, and not a carb'ed engine?

On the World of Outlaws sprinters, we tried widening the LSA, but anything past 110 was a pig.
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http://www.jonescams.com
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Re: Cam Selection for 327 Kinsler-Lucas powered Kellison

Postby falcongeorge » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:57 pm

Vintrcr wrote:Hi folks,
We're restoring a vintage Kellison with a Kinsler-Lucas Mechanical injected 327(331). Advice for the cam selection would be much appreciated. This is what we are working with:

1969 GM 3970010 Block 4 bolt main, 4.030 Bore
1969 GM 3914681 3.25 inch stroke Crank L.J. Forged std.
Crower SP93207B L.J. 6.125” Connecting Rods
Wiseco PT006H3 Forged Pistons 4032 alloy, 8.00cc Dome, 1.260 C.H.
9.025” Deck Ht.
0.015” Deck Clearance
0.024” Compressed Gasket
0.039” Piston-Head Clearance
11.54 to 1 Compression
Brodix-8 Heads 2.05 int valve, 1.62 exh valve, 210 int vol, 64cc chambers
At 28”
Int Exh
.200 141 109
.300 190 135
.400 237 152
.500 250 158
.600 259 162
.700 259 163
Crower 73601 7/16, 1.5 ratio S/S Enduro Rockers
1 ¾” x 44 primary headers w/dual 3” race mufflers
Kinsler-Lucas Mechanical Fuel Injection, tall 2.25” diameter stacks with injectors mounted in high position
4-speed manual transmission
4.10 rear axle with 28” tire
Estimated final weight at 2650#

We are considering Comp Cams 290AS-14 Solid Lifter cam.
Int Exh
Duration@0.050 255 265
Lift(1.5 rockers) 0.540 0.563
Lobe Sep Angle 114*

The Kellison will see limited street "show off" duty and vintage road race events. Anticipating 6500 rpm peak horsepower with 7000 rpm max for durability.
What do you think? Any Kinsler-Lucas experience out there?
Thanks


What an incredibly cool car. Any pics? PM me if you want, would LOVE to see it.
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Postby falcongeorge » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:59 pm

And no, I wouldn't even consider running a 114 lda in a combo like this.
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Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:34 pm

The car will be running on gas, no alky. I'm not near the injection unit to verify, but the throttle plates could very well be 2 3/16". That Isky cam is also in the 250 -260 range. It appears most are running similiar to this.

Mike, do you expect your recommended cam to peak around 6500rpm?
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Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:57 pm

CamKing wrote:I'd go with a roller, but if you want to stick with a flat tappet, I recommend my part# M75369TL-79362-108
252/260@.050"
.369"/.362" Lobe Lift
108 LSA


I ran this selection on a Performance Trends program. Torque and Horsepower is up across the board compared to the Comp Cam we were considering. A couple notable points at 4000 and 5500 was up about 18 hp!! Nice!
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Postby Vintrcr » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:21 pm

Image
Falcongeorge, It's a work in progress, but we are getting there!
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Postby CamKing » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:11 am

Vintrcr wrote:Mike, do you expect your recommended cam to peak around 6500rpm?

Yes, it'll peak at 6,500, and not fall off till past 7,000.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
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http://www.jonescams.com
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LSA for Lucas FI

Postby UDHarold » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:33 am

I used a 108 LSA in the 355 Lucas-injected Red Lobster March that finished 6th overall at the 24 Hours of Daytona, mid-1980s.
Not sure of FI type in the Fiero-engined car that won GTP/L 2 years later, but LSA was again 108, and the car got 8.7 MPG during the race, 2330 miles in 24 hours.


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Postby Vintrcr » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:04 am

Harold, Thanks for your input. That March would be quite a thrill to drive. The 108 LSA will indeed be the choice.

Mike, I'll be talking to you soon about a cam, lifter, and spring package.

Thanks to all for your assistance!!
Bob
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