JoePorting wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:10 pm
That's so far up stream I couldn't imagine it making too much difference.
Upstream Is WHY it makes a difference.
A lot of the things that optimize a manifold are not part of the conventional discussion of CSA and flow numbers etc.
I gained 35 HP on 550hp engine with a geometric property that I never have never seen discussed in a forum or book.
A dyno room with emotional people chasing power curves and cheering about gains would NEVER find it.
And a flow bench test would not find it.
Jon,
If we ignore wetflow for a second.
Are you seeing anything in testing that you won't capture in 1D. Ie if you optimise trapped mass via area and area change and length to capture the pressure waves for maxim fill in the rpm of interest?
Naturally there will be 3D effects with bends and so forth but I deal with stuff that has a nice straight shot I.e. IR fuel injected where you can see the spark plug through entry.
In the current market the only manifolds that matter from a business perspective are forward opening EFI manifolds for late model cars.
The OEM stuff is so well optimized that 20 HP is a huge accomplishment.
You won't get in the ballpark without 1D to get a starting point and look for plenum problems.
Then you need to do transient 3D CFD based on stipulated 1D data. The key ring there is getting good animations and spending many ours examining them.
Frankly it is just hard work. Like looking for needles in a moving haystack.
Of course there is, they spent a lot of money for me to do the research. They own it.
Then why even bring it up, if you can't/won't discuss it? It adds nothing to the discussion, other than now we know that you know something apparently nobody else does.
Because knowing that there are properties worth looking for that few know about, is valuable in and of itself.
If I could have known in advance of spending the money I did to find it that there was something to be found or if I had solid reason to know there was no hope I could have made decision accordingly.
At the time, if it were not possible to find that gain, the project would have been canceled. It was slightly below a competitive manifold.
Lots of information is valuable even if it isn't what you want.
swampbuggy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:49 pm
Question for Jon @ Schmidt Motor Works. I can see reading this topic that you worked for Edelbrock, my question to you is when people grind inside the plenum area and make quite a bit of change, mostly between the carb pad area to the roof/ceiling area of the manifold runner is this ALWAYS the correct thing to do ? Or maybe i should ask, is there more metal in that area so professionals such as.........can shape that area as they wish ? Thanks in advance for your response !! Mark H.
There is a lot of conflicting design data on single plane manifolds.
These extendedrunners and eyebrows look like they would cause problems. But done right they work sometimes, but sometimes not.
Of course there is, they spent a lot of money for me to do the research. They own it.
Then why even bring it up, if you can't/won't discuss it? It adds nothing to the discussion, other than now we know that you know something apparently nobody else does.
I am ok with someone telling me I am mining for gold in the wrong place, even if they can’t tell me where it is. In my work I can’t share all the things I see and learn so I get it, but I can share “what we didn’t learn” to point people in the right direction. I appreciate the tip of what not to do as I have foolishly done exactly what you said not to. I imagine you said that as the bigger radius might soften the pulses in the intake runner. That is my gut feeling as to what you are eluding to, but then again I don’t know crap. Lol.
Paul
"It's a fine line between clever and stupid." David St. Hubbins
Of course there is, they spent a lot of money for me to do the research. They own it.
Then why even bring it up, if you can't/won't discuss it? It adds nothing to the discussion, other than now we know that you know something apparently nobody else does.
Because knowing that there are properties worth looking for that few know about, is valuable in and of itself.
If I could have known in advance of spending the money I did to find it that there was something to be found or if I had solid reason to know there was no hope I could have made decision accordingly.
At the time, if it were not possible to find that gain, the project would have been canceled. It was slightly below a competitive manifold.
Lots of information is valuable even if it isn't what you want.
I'll reread this thread and see if I overlooked where you were subtly offering guidance, rather than simply making a statement on which you weren't willing to expound.
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but people playing the "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... " card gets old.
BradH wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:00 am
I'll reread this thread and see if I overlooked where you were subtly offering guidance, rather than simply making a statement on which you weren't willing to expound.
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but people playing the "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... " card gets old.
Get a job working in those circumstances and then you will understand.
How would you like it if you spent a lot of money to find a competitive advantage for your products and one of your employees posted the details on the web?
BradH wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:00 am
I'll reread this thread and see if I overlooked where you were subtly offering guidance, rather than simply making a statement on which you weren't willing to expound.
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but people playing the "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... " card gets old.
Get a job working in those circumstances and then you will understand.
How would you like it if you spent a lot of money to find a competitive advantage for your products and one of your employees posted the details on the web?
I already do, and therefore say absolutely nothing online or outside the ears of my project team & stakeholders re the specifics of what I work on. Yes, I have to sign an NDA and all that fun stuff. It also has absolutely nothing to do with any subject matter discussed on here.
There's no point in us continuing this, and I won't bother with similar comments in the future.
Hey yall I'm new to the forum here but have been reading a few posts and there is great advice and experience here. Bluestar, I too find myself in the same boat as you but with the vortec style of that intake #2913 (except a GMPP copy). I too want to cut the bulges out of the plenum for a straighter line of sight but find myself unsure. can you report any results or feelings you have after doing yours? I think what you have done looks great and would like to duplicate it on my intake. I'll post a pic of mine just for reference
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CmonHoss88 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:25 am
Hey yall I'm new to the forum here but have been reading a few posts and there is great advice and experience here. Bluestar, I too find myself in the same boat as you but with the vortec style of that intake #2913 (except a GMPP copy). I too want to cut the bulges out of the plenum for a straighter line of sight but find myself unsure. can you report any results or feelings you have after doing yours? I think what you have done looks great and would like to duplicate it on my intake. I'll post a pic of mine just for reference
Welcome to the forum,this place is a wealth of knowledge and I recommend in your spare time go back and read up on old threads,there is alot to be gained in my opinion.
This is a couple of pictures of a holley strip dominator 300-25 I done a little while ago, have not run it yet but getting close.
Might give you some ideas.
20220319_123959.jpg
20220319_123945.jpg
20220305_131357.jpg
20220305_131116.jpg
At the runner opening I am 3.13"
At the head flange I am 2.25" this is measured and calculated with radius area included.
Carb pad is 4" x 3.75".
Hope this helps.
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CmonHoss88 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:25 am
Hey yall I'm new to the forum here but have been reading a few posts and there is great advice and experience here. Bluestar, I too find myself in the same boat as you but with the vortec style of that intake #2913 (except a GMPP copy). I too want to cut the bulges out of the plenum for a straighter line of sight but find myself unsure. can you report any results or feelings you have after doing yours? I think what you have done looks great and would like to duplicate it on my intake. I'll post a pic of mine just for reference
Welcome, I have the same Vortec intake you have that I ported the plenum on. Must have worked as my Vortec headed 406 ran in the high 10's with it.
20191031_234434.jpg
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CmonHoss88 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:25 am
Hey yall I'm new to the forum here but have been reading a few posts and there is great advice and experience here. Bluestar, I too find myself in the same boat as you but with the vortec style of that intake #2913 (except a GMPP copy). I too want to cut the bulges out of the plenum for a straighter line of sight but find myself unsure. can you report any results or feelings you have after doing yours? I think what you have done looks great and would like to duplicate it on my intake. I'll post a pic of mine just for reference
Welcome, I have the same Vortec intake you have that I ported the plenum on. Must have worked as my Vortec headed 406 ran in the high 10's with it.
20191031_234434.jpg
Hey Bob,
Is the carb pad as cast on yours?,
They are some fat dividers
