Trump lies

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mk e
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Re: Trump lies

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:10 am

gmrocket wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 am

He was polling close to 15%, ended up at just over 3%.....FAIL
That is typical for 3rd party candidates. They do well in early polling when people tell you who they want to vote for, but as it becomes clear they can't win most people select from the 2 who could win so their vote counts.
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Re: Trump lies

Post by j-c-c » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:32 am

I think anybody discounting the usefulness of third party candidates is misguided.

Being true they often have little chance of being elected, they can move at least during the election, the other candidate in a favorable direction when they are desperate for votes. Problem is, the elected quickly discard those token pledges.

A country that cherishes the right the right to vote incessantly, taints the whole process by insisting one vote always for the lesser of two evils, rather then the best candidate.

I don't have to remind anybody what leaders that has gotten us over many decades.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by David Redszus » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:40 am

I do not care if Johnson is goofy or wacky. He’s honest. He has integrity.
So does any Sunday School teacher or Boy Scout Pack leader. Those are not political credentials for any position.
He aligns with my positions on more issues than anyone from the major parties.
And therefore you are willing and eager to overlook his shortcomings? That's fine with me. But you can't ever criticize Trump supporters for doing the same.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:48 am

gmrocket wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 am
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:07 am
gmrocket wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:38 am


I was going to post links on Gary Johnsons whacko quotes and freak outs,,, but I'm not that mean

I wonder why he completely fell off the face of the earth?
MSM doesn’t cover him. They support the two party system. I do not care if Johnson is goofy or wacky. He’s honest. He has integrity. He aligns with my positions on more issues than anyone from the major parties. I don’t think you want to criticize the way someone speaks and what they say when you support the moron con man you support.
Integrity? Hahaha. Like the time he kissed that comedian on live TV,, she was shocked..might as well have grabbed her by the puzzy

He was polling close to 15%, ended up at just over 3%.....FAIL

Image of orange man bad did that...woooo weeee
Do you not see the irony in you attempting to bash Johnson by comparing him to something Trumo said was acceptable? Holy s#!t.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:49 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:40 am
I do not care if Johnson is goofy or wacky. He’s honest. He has integrity.
So does any Sunday School teacher or Boy Scout Pack leader. Those are not political credentials for any position.
He aligns with my positions on more issues than anyone from the major parties.
And therefore you are willing and eager to overlook his shortcomings? That's fine with me. But you can't ever criticize Trump supporters for doing the same.
Every candidate has shortcomings. The details of what those shortcomings are is what matters.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

mk e wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:10 am
gmrocket wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 am

He was polling close to 15%, ended up at just over 3%.....FAIL
That is typical for 3rd party candidates. They do well in early polling when people tell you who they want to vote for, but as it becomes clear they can't win most people select from the 2 who could win so their vote counts.
Every vote counts. The idea that voting third party doesn’t count is why most people don’t do it. You are buying into the illusion that we only have two choices. I vote for the candidate I think is best for the job. If everyone did that, we’d be a lot better off. I could not bring myself to vote for Trump or Clinton. They are both awful choices.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:55 am

j-c-c wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:32 am
I think anybody discounting the usefulness of third party candidates is misguided.

Being true they often have little chance of being elected, they can move at least during the election, the other candidate in a favorable direction when they are desperate for votes. Problem is, the elected quickly discard those token pledges.

A country that cherishes the right the right to vote incessantly, taints the whole process by insisting one vote always for the lesser of two evils, rather then the best candidate.

I don't have to remind anybody what leaders that has gotten us over many decades.
Exactly.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:24 am

GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

Every vote counts.
No!!!!!

Every vote is counted, but votes for the losing candidate count for nothing. A vote for a candidate that could win has a chance of mattering, a vote for a candidate who can't win means you chose to let others decide who will govern you. If you live in a place with a ranked order system or runoff system that gave you first and 2nd choices then you'd have the luxury of making a statement without giving up your vote, but for those of us that don't have that a 3rd party vote is a vote that doesn't count for anything.
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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:13 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:24 am
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

Every vote counts.
No!!!!!

Every vote is counted, but votes for the losing candidate count for nothing. A vote for a candidate that could win has a chance of mattering, a vote for a candidate who can't win means you chose to let others decide who will govern you. If you live in a place with a ranked order system or runoff system that gave you first and 2nd choices then you'd have the luxury of making a statement without giving up your vote, but for those of us that don't have that a 3rd party vote is a vote that doesn't count for anything.
Any candidate "could" win if they have enough votes. Third party candidates aren't viable BECAUSE of the presupposition that they aren't viable. That's it. The media bias and two party propaganda has worked on you. You have been trained to believe this notion, and it is a lie. Your attitude on the matter is the problem.

What matters to me is to not acquiesce to a "pick the lesser of two evils" position. I will vote for the candidate I think is best for the job EVERY time.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:05 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

Every vote counts. The idea that voting third party doesn’t count is why most people don’t do it. You are buying into the illusion that we only have two choices. I vote for the candidate I think is best for the job. If everyone did that, we’d be a lot better off. I could not bring myself to vote for Trump or Clinton. They are both awful choices.
You very rarely have more than 2 real choices.
3rd party candidates can win, there are a few independents in congress. They tend to do well in early polling, but if they don't get into the "could win" range by a month or 2 before election day their numbers plummet vs the main party candidates where party loyalty holds them up even when it's clear they aren't very likely to win

Clinton and Trump were both poor options.....but if you want your vote to mean anything you need to pick your poison.
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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:25 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:05 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

Every vote counts. The idea that voting third party doesn’t count is why most people don’t do it. You are buying into the illusion that we only have two choices. I vote for the candidate I think is best for the job. If everyone did that, we’d be a lot better off. I could not bring myself to vote for Trump or Clinton. They are both awful choices.
You very rarely have more than 2 real choices.
3rd party candidates can win, there are a few independents in congress. They tend to do well in early polling, but if they don't get into the "could win" range by a month or 2 before election day their numbers plummet vs the main party candidates where party loyalty holds them up even when it's clear they aren't very likely to win

Clinton and Trump were both poor options.....but if you want your vote to mean anything you need to pick your poison.
What do you mean by “mean anything”? If you didn’t vote for Trump, did your vote "mean anything"? The way I see it, you and I both voted for a candidate who lost.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:25 pm

The way I see it, you and I both voted for a candidate who lost.
We did......but your vote never had a chance of mattering, mine very nearly did matter quite a lot.
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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:29 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:25 pm

The way I see it, you and I both voted for a candidate who lost.
We did......but your vote never had a chance of mattering, mine very nearly did matter quite a lot.
:lol:

I'd rather look at myself in the mirror and know I voted for someone who I thought was the best person on the ballot for the job. It would feel cheap and dirty if I rationalized voting for what I perceived as the lesser of two horrible choices because "my vote very nearly mattered".

To each his own I guess.

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Re: Trump lies

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:51 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:29 pm

I'd rather look at myself in the mirror and know I voted for someone who I thought was the best person on the ballot for the job. It would feel cheap and dirty if I rationalized voting for what I perceived as the lesser of two horrible choices because "my vote very nearly mattered".

To each his own I guess.
I get that...but Rump is now president so sometimes it's about putting the good of the many above pride. At least I tried to help.
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Re: Trump lies

Post by GRTfast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:16 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:51 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:29 pm

I'd rather look at myself in the mirror and know I voted for someone who I thought was the best person on the ballot for the job. It would feel cheap and dirty if I rationalized voting for what I perceived as the lesser of two horrible choices because "my vote very nearly mattered".

To each his own I guess.
I get that...but Rump is now president so sometimes it's about putting the good of the many above pride. At least I tried to help.
I can respect that, but at the time I wasn’t convinced Hillary would be any better for the country. I still think she might have been worse in certain ways. Trump is proving to be more of a loon than I thought though.

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