Aluminium vs Steel rods

[mohrperformance]

One advantage of Al rod is the possibility of a stiffer structure while not increasing weight. Similar reason why top fuel rod beams can be so bulky without making the rod too heavy, big ends can also be stiffer (read better bearing life). Stiffness is related to the fourth power of the dimensions, so Al rod is bulky but not too heavy while sporting increased stiffness. Why are lots of aircraft structures Al, stiffness/mass is greater. Ti is better because endurance is much better than Al, but cost is much greater than good alloy steel.

[DrillDawg]

Steel rods like used in nascar leave more room in the crankcase than the bulkier alum. rods would for "air" to move around which decreases pumping losses even with dry sump oiling.

[engineguyBill]

Yes, Pankl is the 'P' in CP (Calvert Pankl) which was established in the late 90's and bought CARRILLO in 2003 or so. Pankl is one of the largest conglomerates in Europe, headquartered in Austria and is one of the largest employers in that country. Pankl builds military equipment, such as helicopters, so they do have access to all sorts of propiotary materials and manufacturing processes.

[Warp Speed]

Yes, Pankl is the 'P' in CP (Calvert Pankl) which was established in the late 90's and bought CARRILLO in 2003 or so. Pankl is one of the largest conglomerates in Europe, headquartered in Austria and is one of the largest employers in that country. Pankl builds military equipment, such as helicopters, so they do have access to all sorts of propiotary materials and manufacturing processes.

Pankl acquired Carrillo later than 2003. I believe 2003 is when The Dover Group purchased it. That is when things when south for them. Jack Sparks tried to hang on and fix it, but eventually gave up and left. I believe he went to Callies at that time.
That is when we switched to Pankl rods.
Once Dover ran it into the ground a bit, Pankl purchased it.

[Stan Weiss]

You are basing your opinion on ONE article (maybe 2 of you include the GRP advertising article).
My opinion is based off of facts gained by the racing community, over the last 25 years or so, developing race engines.
This is by no means meant as disrespect towards you, but you are not seeing the whole picture here. The pros and cons have been discussed. There was only one PS team running aluminum rods, and it's because he owns an aluminum rod company. Steel rods are superior, up until the point you need to protect the oil wedge. AKA Pro Mod, Top Fiuel, big power adder stuff. Everything else is all about control and efficiency!

Warp i only used those examples as did another poster simply to show that yes pro stock is using alloy and that alloy has good qualities that can be used. I have used alloy rods in big inch ford and they exhibited just as good or better service for us. One being quick to rev and two very minimal bearing wear. We also set up with fairly tight quench and never seen the so called rod stretch problem. This was a mid 800 hp motor spinning 7000,so service was excellent in my eyes. I know another couple guys who run in low cube 489 inch hemi dodge and swear buy them. So its not just me. Like alloy blocks alloy rods have their place. I use both and will continue

Sorry , Pro Stock doesn't, and hasn't used "alloy" rods in years. There was only one team that did, V Gains, because he owns an aluminum rod company.
But it doesn't matter. I was just trying to teach you, and others here, a little about engine dynamics. And that "alloy" rods in most anything (other than the exceptions I've mentioned earlier) is 90s technology. I've given the reasons for this, but it falls on deaf ears so..................

Without saying what Pro Stock. Both could be right.

Jay, I am sure you are referencing NHRA 500 ci Pro Stock, I do not know what Steve is referencing, but they are others like Mountain Motor, and Extreme,

Stan

[Warp Speed]

Warp i only used those examples as did another poster simply to show that yes pro stock is using alloy and that alloy has good qualities that can be used. I have used alloy rods in big inch ford and they exhibited just as good or better service for us. One being quick to rev and two very minimal bearing wear. We also set up with fairly tight quench and never seen the so called rod stretch problem. This was a mid 800 hp motor spinning 7000,so service was excellent in my eyes. I know another couple guys who run in low cube 489 inch hemi dodge and swear buy them. So its not just me. Like alloy blocks alloy rods have their place. I use both and will continue

Sorry , Pro Stock doesn't, and hasn't used "alloy" rods in years. There was only one team that did, V Gains, because he owns an aluminum rod company.
But it doesn't matter. I was just trying to teach you, and others here, a little about engine dynamics. And that "alloy" rods in most anything (other than the exceptions I've mentioned earlier) is 90s technology. I've given the reasons for this, but it falls on deaf ears so..................

Without saying what Pro Stock. Both could be right.

Jay, I am sure you are referencing NHRA 500 ci Pro Stock, I do not know what Steve is referencing, but they are others like Mountain Motor, and Extreme,

Stan

True, and I stated that. When the engine gets that big (mountain motors) it is a pile of inefficiency. With the piston speeds and such, they are much like a power adder Pro Mod, or even top fuel. Your just trying to get them to live.
That's why those good mountain motors only make about 2.5hp/ci. Hell, we made that with a single four barrel 12 to 1 small block, and it will last all day! Lol
The drop in reciprocating weight is a plus (AKA mountain motors and extreme piston speeds) but it comes at a huge price, in many areas.

[pdq67]

Warpspeed....does "anybody" know the molecular makeup of a NASCAR Pankl connecting rod ??? And is the MIN. rod journal diameter 1.850" ??? thanks Mark H. A.K.A. Swampbuggy.

Yes, minimum is 1.1850 rod pin.
No, the material is prepriatory to Pankl, they keep it very secret.

Well then, I have $10 to help anybody that will send a Pankl rod off to a materials Lab. for alloy checking if anybody that has a spare one wants to do it?

I have a sneaking suspension that they are made out of a slightly modified alloy of 300M!! Like I said earlier, there's only a handful off steel alloys that are better than 300M for rods and such.. GM did their homework back then when they came up with 300M and the dammed stuff is relatively cheap AND, "tough as REBAR"!!!

pdq67

[Warp Speed]

Warpspeed....does "anybody" know the molecular makeup of a NASCAR Pankl connecting rod ??? And is the MIN. rod journal diameter 1.850" ??? thanks Mark H. A.K.A. Swampbuggy.

Yes, minimum is 1.1850 rod pin.
No, the material is prepriatory to Pankl, they keep it very secret.

Well then, I have $10 to help anybody that will send a Pankl rod off to a materials Lab. for alloy checking if anybody that has a spare one wants to do it?

I have a sneaking suspension that they are made out of a slightly modified alloy of 300M!! Like I said earlier, there's only a handful off steel alloys that are better than 300M for rods and such.. GM did their homework back then when they came up with 300M and the dammed stuff is relatively cheap AND, "tough as REBAR"!!!

pdq67

Good luck with that..........

[Steve.k]

So these pankl rods lightweight like or close to ti? Or are they considerably heavier?

[DrillDawg]

The rods weigh between 530 to 600 grams or so depending on length, big end size, ect.

[swampbuggy]

YEP Drilldog you are correct on the weight. Mark H.

[Steve.k]

Yes fairly light. Thinking ti be lighter yet though.

[engineguyBill]

Yes, Pankl is the 'P' in CP (Calvert Pankl) which was established in the late 90's and bought CARRILLO in 2003 or so. Pankl is one of the largest conglomerates in Europe, headquartered in Austria and is one of the largest employers in that country. Pankl builds military equipment, such as helicopters, so they do have access to all sorts of propiotary materials and manufacturing processes.

Pankl acquired Carrillo later than 2003. I believe 2003 is when The Dover Group purchased it. That is when things when south for them. Jack Sparks tried to hang on and fix it, but eventually gave up and left. I believe he went to Callies at that time.
That is when we switched to Pankl rods.
Once Dover ran it into the ground a bit, Pankl purchased it.

Yeah, I am not sure of the exact date that CARRILLO came into the CP family, hence my statement "2003 or so". I imagine that Dave will come along soon and enlighten us . . . . . . . . . Not that it really matters.

[swampbuggy]

STEVE K....I was just on Crower's web site and it stated that a 6.250" S.B.C. Titanium rod weighed 548 grams, wow i would not have thought it would have been that heavy ?? 6.00" = 495 gr. 5.700" = 480 gr. These weights would vary SLIGHTLY depending on B.E. (Big End) bore, P.E. (Pin End) bore, and big end width ("IF") that is even an option, which it probably isn't. Mark H.

[MadBill]

STEVE K....I was just on Crower's web site and it stated that a 6.250" S.B.C. Titanium rod weighed 548 grams, wow i would not have thought it would have been that heavy ?? 6.00" = 495 gr. 5.700" = 480 gr....

As a 'glass half empty' thinker might say, "Titanium: Heavier than aluminum, weaker than steel."