Re: Ported Dart 215's with port energy discussion 3.0

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:49 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:26 pm
Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:12 pm
Carnut1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:00 pm

In stock I have A few dual planes and a victor jr. tall. I was thinkin tunnel ram with dual four tbi's. I doubt any modified dual planes can keep up with the heads and a 900 cfm tb.
Personally, I don't think any of the readily available tunnel ram manifolds have long enough runners for 6,500 RPM and below.
Some, you can extend the runners under the plenum with fabricated spacers but, that will be TALL so. how high do you have clearance before it gets to high...?
See if you can locate an old Offenhauser "DUAL-ram", cross ram type intake; they worked really well on the street in the the earlier days.
There used to be an aftermarket big port cross-ram type intake available for the Chevy Corvette "Cross Fire" engines from a place called "Eddie Motorsports". RENEGADE, I think they called it.
That manifold had large runners, (standard Chevrolet Corvette aluminum heads; not the extra large aftermarket runners), and an increased plenum volume. It was made for 2 single barrel throttle bodies but, I am sure the top could be machined to accept larger 4 barrel type.

EDIT: I just looked it up and JEG'S still has them available for $585.00; SUMMIT for $550.00.

I have seen that intake, very sexy.

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:06 pm

20180329_210122.jpg

Not much has been discussed about the shape and progression of airspeed through a 23 degree pinch. At this point I like a wide pinch with as smooth a arc as I can get. Input welcome. Thanks, Charlie

randy331 · Post by **randy331** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:44 pm

Bob Hollinshead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:59 pm Will this see a dyno?

Compared to a well known head, like an AFR of same size.

Randy

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:01 pm

randy331 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:44 pm
Bob Hollinshead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:59 pm Will this see a dyno?
Compared to a well known head, like an AFR of same size.

Randy

Dyno is planned for this mill when finished. Are you saying I need to purchase AFR 235's and run these head to head Randy?

Warp Speed · Post by **Warp Speed** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:13 pm

You need to use something relevent as a control set!

cv67 · Post by **cv67** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:44 am

Charlie keep up the good work enjoy the threads and all your pics. Not many are willing to put their stuff up for critique like you do

Post by **autogear** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:33 am

My memory is crap, but didn't an ST'er have an efi T'ram in his truck? Charlie could also look for an SY1 "SmokeyRam". They pop up occasionally, although the nostalgia garage-wall art guys love em. Guys who try to run them on street cars seem to hate them though LOL.

RevTheory · Post by **RevTheory** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:39 am

autogear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:33 am My memory is crap, but didn't an ST'er have an efi T'ram in his truck? Charlie could also look for an SY1 "SmokeyRam". They pop up occasionally, although the nostalgia garage-wall art guys love em. Guys who try to run them on street cars seem to hate them though LOL.

You are correct and he pulls heavy loads with it at 75 mph, locked up in OD.

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43195

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:59 am

autogear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:33 am My memory is crap, but didn't an ST'er have an efi T'ram in his truck? Charlie could also look for an SY1 "SmokeyRam". They pop up occasionally, although the nostalgia garage-wall art guys love em. Guys who try to run them on street cars seem to hate them though LOL.

Bob from Throttle built a nice tunnel ram for a truck a while ago. Cross rams suck at low rpm due to giant plenum and fuel distribution issues coupled with poor signal to 8 boosters. I think the tbi would clean up some of those issues.

Walter R. Malik · Post by **Walter R. Malik** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:59 am Cross rams suck at low rpm due to giant plenum and fuel distribution issues coupled with poor signal to 8 boosters. I think the tbi would clean up some of those issues.

If you say so ...

I have experienced several and they do present some sag at transition throttle openings with large carbs.
TBI does not rely upon booster signal strength and that would probably make a big difference.

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:40 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm
Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:59 am Cross rams suck at low rpm due to giant plenum and fuel distribution issues coupled with poor signal to 8 boosters. I think the tbi would clean up some of those issues.
If you say so ...

I have experienced several and they do present some sag at transition throttle openings with large carbs.
TBI does not rely upon booster signal strength and that would probably make a big difference.

I am sure a sharp carb guy can take care of any low rpm issues. I am not a sharp carb guy. Thanks, Charlie

Erland Cox · Post by **Erland Cox** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:52 pm

Carnut1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:06 pm 20180329_210122.jpgNot much has been discussed about the shape and progression of airspeed through a 23 degree pinch. At this point I like a wide pinch with as smooth a arc as I can get. Input welcome. Thanks, Charlie

I follow the push rod bulges shape in the divider and make it as thin as I dare opposite the bulge.
I agree on the smooth arc around the push rod.

Erland

Walter R. Malik · Post by **Walter R. Malik** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:10 pm

Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:40 pm
Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm
Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:59 am Cross rams suck at low rpm due to giant plenum and fuel distribution issues coupled with poor signal to 8 boosters. I think the tbi would clean up some of those issues.
If you say so ...

I have experienced several and they do present some sag at transition throttle openings with large carbs.
TBI does not rely upon booster signal strength and that would probably make a big difference.
I am sure a sharp carb guy can take care of any low rpm issues. I am not a sharp carb guy. Thanks, Charlie

I must have misread ... I was under the impression this was going to be dual TBI throttle bodies; not carbs.
Oh well.

Carnut1 · Post by **Carnut1** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:08 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:10 pm
Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:40 pm
Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

If you say so ...

I have experienced several and they do present some sag at transition throttle openings with large carbs.
TBI does not rely upon booster signal strength and that would probably make a big difference.
I am sure a sharp carb guy can take care of any low rpm issues. I am not a sharp carb guy. Thanks, Charlie
I must have misread ... I was under the impression this was going to be dual TBI throttle bodies; not carbs.
Oh well.

I will run dual throttle body tbi. The discussion wandered to poor low speed performance of the cross ram. Thanks, Charlie

Walter R. Malik · Post by **Walter R. Malik** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:39 pm

Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:08 pm
Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:10 pm
Carnut1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:40 pm

I am sure a sharp carb guy can take care of any low rpm issues. I am not a sharp carb guy. Thanks, Charlie
I must have misread ... I was under the impression this was going to be dual TBI throttle bodies; not carbs.
Oh well.
I will run dual throttle body tbi. The discussion wandered to poor low speed performance of the cross ram. Thanks, Charlie

AND, the low speed performance penalty surely is not from past experiences unless there is caburetor(s) relying on a vacuum signal being involved.
A TBI system does not share the same issues.

I guess I didn't misread and now understand you are totally against running any cross-ram manifolds for whatever reasons you may have, whether legitimate or not.
Sorry I even brought them up as any kind of alternative for what you intend to do ... I will be interested in reading about your finished product.