puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

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Belgian1979
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

naukkis79 wrote:
Belgian1979 wrote:It hunts severely when running stoich or leaner and even constantly starts missing. Some cams just don't let you do that
Get rid of closed-loop autotune, if you have problems with stoich AFR closed-loop is not usable either. Even with very mild stock cams std engines have almost zero ignition advance at light load to keep EGT high enough to keep lambdas alive. With high-overlap cam EGT recirculation with rich afr will certainly lower egt to point where false lean happens, and ecu corrects to very rich afr, which ruins engine incredibly fast.
0° advance at light load ? Seems counterintuitive to me. Engine will tend to run hot under those conditions as well.
Are you now referring to a NB O2 sensor or a WB O2. An WBO2 has it's own sensor heating.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

modok wrote:Looks to me that, when intake was designed, part load operation was not one of the criteria.
In fact the engine runs a lot better than with a Victor Jr type manifold which you usually see with these engines and an EFI system conversion.

What led you to this conclusion ?
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by modok »

Wild guess. Was I wrong? :P
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

modok wrote:Wild guess. Was I wrong? :P
yes
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by modok »

Well I guess so, it's been two months sorry I forgot it's IR

Ok then why can't you cruise lean?
You can't blame the cam. Probably a problem elsewhere. Not a good load signal? throttles out of sync?
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by MadBill »

Belgian1979 wrote:It hunts severely when running stoich or leaner and even constantly starts missing. Some cams just don't let you do that
Since we're touching on this topic, how much total spark advance is programmed in during light throttle cruise? Too little will cause surging; it needs as much as 50°+. Some mid-eighties GM vacuum cans were 30°...
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

42-44°
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by naukkis79 »

Belgian1979 wrote:
0° advance at light load ? Seems counterintuitive to me. Engine will tend to run hot under those conditions as well.
Are you now referring to a NB O2 sensor or a WB O2. An WBO2 has it's own sensor heating.
Stock NB sensors have heating too, but even with heating they are not accurate at very light loads if engine is tuned to best power. Stock ignition maps call for near zero load ~10 degreee timing which increases way over 40 degree when load increases. There is no way that WBO is accurate at richer than stoich, normal ignition timing and near zero load, it will show lean condition and ecu will richen up, and if ecu autotune has not sane limits if will go pig rich - and in such conditions it's not uncommon to stick oils rings in piston with a few thousand miles. And the result is smoking engine in decel.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

Strange. This is the map of a 1995 stock SBC LT1.

Image
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by n2xlr8n »

I'd honestly like to see how it idled with a vacuum pump.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

n2xlr8n wrote:I'd honestly like to see how it idled with a vacuum pump.
Not sure I follow you here
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by n2xlr8n »

Belgian1979 wrote:
n2xlr8n wrote:I'd honestly like to see how it idled with a vacuum pump.
Not sure I follow you here
I've had some nasty cams idle better than I ever imagined after adding a vacuum pump. Both EFI and carb'd.

I'm not sure how your injected setup would differ, but it's worth a shot.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

n2xlr8n wrote:
Belgian1979 wrote:
n2xlr8n wrote:I'd honestly like to see how it idled with a vacuum pump.
Not sure I follow you here
I've had some nasty cams idle better than I ever imagined after adding a vacuum pump. Both EFI and carb'd.

I'm not sure how your injected setup would differ, but it's worth a shot.
To put the crankcase under low pressure...I don't see how this could influence the idle quality/cam combo but I might be wrong here.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Belgian1979 »

Coming back to this old thread of mine. I just recently acquired a smoke machine and connected it up to the engine. I see smoke coming out of each individual intake channel (ITB manifold). As said before I have a vacuum chamber underneath each runner connected with a small hole to the runners themselves. I couldn't quite see the source as the runner got filled up with smoke but due to fact that each and every runner smokes, I assume that at least this is not caused by an openstanding valve and smoke migrating up from the crankcase through the ring gaps and such.

The vacuum chamber (underneath the cross ram runners forming a 'v' have a SS plate that closes it towards the lifter valley. It is sealed up with blue silicone. I assume that it has failed. Would it be possible that oil migrates up into the lifter valley to create the issue ?

Thanks for the input.
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Re: puff of blue smoke at higher rpm decel

Post by Newold1 »

Absolutely!
A manifold vacuum even in your vacuum chamber under the manifold if it is leaking under vacuum will pull oil up from the lifter valley area and send it through those individual ports into the ITB inlet runners and burn it. When you are decelerating you will have maximum vacuum and thats when it would happen the strongest.

Is there a way to plug temporarily 7 of the 8 holes and then put some slight air pressure into that chamber with a hose and just pressure when you blow on it to see if it holds any pressure. If it has a leak into the valley it should bleed of and you might even hear the leak if its quiet enough.
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