Pump gas BBC street motor

[brokeNslow]

Converter size? Max rpm?

The attainable Hp will depend on the engine builder and parts used of course.

You could give two builder the exact same components and end up with very different results.

I think there would be quite a few builders who could get 750-800 hp out of 570-580 inches with pump gas. Others will make less HP with similar parts.

I'd like to keep it revving below 7000 but I don't really have any good reasons for that number just seems like very high piston speeds with the big 4.25"+ arm. Not sure on converter size. I am going to send PTC a dyno graph and what I want to do with the car and let them decide for me.

What do you guys think of working with people like Shafiroff, Reher-Morrison, Steve Schmidt etc? They have pump gas street motors that seem to make this kind of power but I've heard their dyno numbers might read a little on the high side at times?

What used components or good bargains are out there? And what is the best head? I'm always hearing the same three it seems: AFR, Dart Pro 1, and the BMF stuff. What will make the most power for me or is that a debate in itself?

[bigjoe1]

There are NO 600 HP street cars that can run 9.99. I dont know where you got that idea, but it will take WAY more than 600 HP to run in the 9 anything. You would be lucky to run in the 10 second range, let alone in the nines. I have doing this stuff for years, and I know what it will take as far as HP is concerned. Unless the car is VERY light, 700 plus HP will be needed.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

[Fatman]

There are NO 600 HP street cars that can run 9.99. I dont know where you got that idea, but it will take WAY more than 600 HP to run in the 9 anything. You would be lucky to run in the 10 second range, let alone in the nines. I have doing this stuff for years, and I know what it will take as far as HP is concerned. Unless the car is VERY light, 700 plus HP will be needed.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

I thought that around 650 hp would be enough to get 3200lbs to the high 9s. I've made the assumption that the car and drivetrain is well set up though. The worse the setup, the more power will be needed.

[67RS502]

There are NO 600 HP street cars that can run 9.99. I dont know where you got that idea, but it will take WAY more than 600 HP to run in the 9 anything. You would be lucky to run in the 10 second range, let alone in the nines. I have doing this stuff for years, and I know what it will take as far as HP is concerned. Unless the car is VERY light, 700 plus HP will be needed.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

I thought that around 650 hp would be enough to get 3200lbs to the high 9s. I've made the assumption that the car and drivetrain is well set up though. The worse the setup, the more power will be needed.

I agree, my 502 made 626hp@6200 & 627tq at 4500, car is 3300lbs with me, it runs 10.0s with 373s and a tight 10"(not the ideal setup), thats why I said it would take 600-625 for a 3200lbs car to go hi 9s. Moroso sliderule & pipemax say about the same thing - just over 600hp needed to go 133mph.

[3V Performance]

I did a 496 ( 4.310 x 4.25 ) for myself and never used it but it made

(9.2 to 1 comp ( pump gas ))

650hp @ 6200
600tq @ 4900
486tq @ 4000
511tq @ 4100

@625 lift solid cam real easy on springs.

I think Joes right that it will take closer to 650 - 700hp to run solid in the 9's

[CamKing]

I'd get a head that flows 420+@.600" and a cam that's around 270/278@.050"
This would give you the 650hp@ 6,500rpm, and you would need a carb that could supply 1,100cfm.

Sorry, I skrewed up.
That should read 750hp@6,500rpm.

Is there a good inexpensive head for the big block that flows 420+@.600"??
That would only require around .650" valve lift.

[Fatman]

I'd get a head that flows 420+@.600" and a cam that's around 270/278@.050"
This would give you the 650hp@ 6,500rpm, and you would need a carb that could supply 1,100cfm.

Sorry, I skrewed up.
That should read 750hp@6,500rpm.

Is there a good inexpensive head for the big block that flows 420+@.600"??
That would only require around .650" valve lift.

Why do you think that much air is needed?

[CamKing]

Why do you think that much air is needed?

So he can run a milder cam.
We're talking about a 582" engine. Torque won't be an issue.
That many cubes needs a big port if he wants to run a mild cam and still make 750hp.
The extra money he'll spend on the heads, he'll save on replacing valve springs and lifters.

[brokeNslow]

I have the moroso sliderule too but I don't have total faith in the car getting everything out of the motor like a stock eliminator car would so I figure I should give myself a nice 100 hp buffer zone.

What do you guys think of the Shafiroff 540 motor? With a merlin block upgrade since it is usually built on a stock block, it comes in at $9500 less carb/ignition (which can be had for around 1400 from them tuned and ready to go) and supposedly makes 695 hp with out of the box Pro 1 heads. I read about a guy running one of those and he went low 10's in a camaro at 3300 lbs in nitrous trim (converter/gear/etc) and on a 275 shot went mid 8's on radials.

http://www.ultrastreet.net/540_classic.asp

Horsepower 695 @ 6300 RPM
Torque lbs/ft 665 @ 4500 RPM
Bore & Stroke 4.500 x 4.250
Comp Ratio 10.5 - 1
Block Blueprinted HP 4 Bolt Gen VI Low Deck
Heads Dart Pro 1 325cc Aluminum Heads
Valves 2.300/1.880 Severe Duty Stainless Steel
Crank Eagle 4340 4.250" Forged Steel
Rods Eagle 4340 6.385" H-Beam Forged Steel
Pistons Mahle Custom Coated 10.5-1 Forged Aluminum
Camshaft Comp Cams Custom "Street Roller"
Lifters Comp Cams Solid Roller
Timing Set Cloyes Tru Roller w/Torrington Bearing
Rocker Arms Comp Cams 1.7 Pro Magnum Roller Rockers
Intake Manifold Edelbrock Victor Series Aluminum
Valve Covers Polished Cast Aluminum w/Logo
Oil Pan Moroso/SSRE Stroker Series
Balancing Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly
Assembly Professionally Blueprinted and Assembled
Dyno Yes, Actual Dyno Sheet Provided

[67RS502]

I have the moroso sliderule too but I don't have total faith in the car getting everything out of the motor like a stock eliminator car would so I figure I should give myself a nice 100 hp buffer zone.

What do you guys think of the Shafiroff 540 motor? supposedly makes 695 hp[/i]

100hp buffer zone? I'll give a street car 30 maybe 40hp buffer zone, because their not ganna work as well as a strip only car because of gearing / stall / exhaust.

On the Shafiroff, I believe they're really overrated in HP.
A local here got their 695hp 540 in a 69 chevelle, it ran 11.30s @ 118 - it was a total turd. This was with a their 1050 Dominator, good fuel system, good exhaust, 10" & 410s. I've hear this happening with others, so to me the Shafiroff stuff is very overrated. Its always better to build your own, unless you have a good shop workin with you.

[brokeNslow]

I have the moroso sliderule too but I don't have total faith in the car getting everything out of the motor like a stock eliminator car would so I figure I should give myself a nice 100 hp buffer zone.

What do you guys think of the Shafiroff 540 motor? supposedly makes 695 hp[/i]

100hp buffer zone? I'll give a street car 30 maybe 40hp buffer zone, because their not ganna work as well as a strip only car because of gearing / stall / exhaust.

On the Shafiroff, I believe they're really overrated in HP.
A local here got their 695hp 540 in a 69 chevelle, it ran 11.30s @ 118 - it was a total turd. This was with a their 1050 Dominator, good fuel system, good exhaust, 10" & 410s. I've hear this happening with others, so to me the Shafiroff stuff is very overrated. Its always better to build your own, unless you have a good shop workin with you.

Wow that is a bummer and a half!

I can't imagine how pissed I'd be expecting mid 130's and coming back with 118. Was that car over 4000 lbs or something?

[bigjoe1]

A few years ago I ran a Shaffrof 540 and it had 150 HP LESS than the guy paid for. Enough said.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

[brokeNslow]

A few years ago I ran a Shaffrof 540 and it had 150 HP LESS than the guy paid for. Enough said.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

Damn what could account for such a discrepancy? It had all the parts it was supposed to right? Seems like build differences could account for some overall power differences but an out of the box head with the same out of the box intake, same cam, and same rotating seems like it should make similar power.

Did you guys talk to Shafiroff about getting some resolution to that situation?

[bigjoe1]

Understand, this was NOT my customer. He just came for dyno testing after the car was about one second slower than they thought it should be. When the engine owner said he might sue. Shaffroft said go ahead, if you think it will do you any good. It cost 4000 to 5000 dollars to make it run the way he paid for. ( NOT GOOD ) I have had phone calls telling me the same story. Too bad.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

[Ed-vancedEngines]

A local here got their 695hp 540 in a 69 chevelle, it ran 11.30s @ 118 - it was a total turd. This was with a their 1050 Dominator, good fuel system, good exhaust, 10" & 410s. I've hear this happening with others

That to me is unbelievable and I am sure Mr. Joe will agree.

Way back when we almost did that (11.48) with a daily driver using factory oval port 781's with big valves a home brew porting. Solid lift cam Edlebrock Tarantula and a vacuum 780 Holley with mnor mods. in a car weighing over 4,000 lbs. That was a poor boy engine that can easily be duplicated.

Something sounds way wrong with that picture.

I guess it is partly becuase I am an engine builder and have also worked a few months in a performance engine crate building shop that I have no use for anyone's crate engines. I also hate to say this but it is truth with some, I am sure not all, but some of the dyno tested engines you get with a dyno pull copy, are only a representation of what a similar engine did. Like I said not all do this.

Fact is I am sure most of the guys do test and claim honest results. What is honest results on a dyno though.

You can test the same identical engine at 1,000 rpm per second, - 600 rpm per second, - and at 300 rpm per second, and not get the same results even if all tests were averaged at each dyno setting range. Want big numbers, you can tell the computer it has a different stroke, or test it at the quicker pull rate and get flash readings.

The dyno I use at the settings and the slow pulls we do end with the actual corrected dyno numbers showing the engine has less power than the on the track performance shows it has. That makes us and customers happy.

Ed