maybe some G-body racers can give me some tips. My 81 malibu needs traction help. It has stock style rear suspension with all tubular control arms. Has under the rearend anti-roll bar. Mickey 29.5 x 9 ET drags. I'm running stock rear shocks and springs. Is there anything to be gained by installing coil overs? Some coil over kits mount the shocks in the stock position. Some require a weld-in crossmember and put the shocks straight up and down. Which is better for traction? I also have tubular front arms and stock springs with CE cheapo drag shocks. I've run a best 1.47 60' off the transbrake but thats rare.
Brian
G-body traction
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prairiehotrodder
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Re: G-body traction
Get some Air Lift air bags for the stock rear springs.
Shocks do not support the weight of the car. Springs do. Now you got adjustable springs.
Now when ALL THE weight is on the rear axle at launch you got the spring to support all that weight. which you can adjust easily. If you don't already have the rear lower control arm relocation brackets,, get these too.
Take weight off the front of the car. and or add a weight ballast box in the trunk.
Sometimes it wants weight over the rear axle. Some times it wants the weight added behind the rear axle, near the bumper.
The air springs support that weight.
Shocks do not support the weight of the car. Springs do. Now you got adjustable springs.
Now when ALL THE weight is on the rear axle at launch you got the spring to support all that weight. which you can adjust easily. If you don't already have the rear lower control arm relocation brackets,, get these too.
Take weight off the front of the car. and or add a weight ballast box in the trunk.
Sometimes it wants weight over the rear axle. Some times it wants the weight added behind the rear axle, near the bumper.
The air springs support that weight.
Re: G-body traction
What Engine , what Trans , What Rear and Ratio. Years ago My Son had a 99% stock chassis 1979 Malibu. Rear control arms ( Boxed in ) with sheet metal ,Poly bushings ( well greased ) Stock front A arms with poly bushings ( well Greased ) Stock springs,90 -10 shocks , stock rear springs , 50 -50 shocks, Air bag in Pass side, 383 " SBC = 500 Hp. , Turbo 350 , 300 stall converter, 4:10 gears , 12 bolt rear , Moser axles,a spool. 10 cheater slicks . Car ran mid 10's at the track and would do Wheelies on the street.
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prairiehotrodder
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Re: G-body traction
Found some problems, made some changes. My front upper control arms are really cheap speedway circle track pieces and both of them were bent right at the flange where the ball joint bolts on. This caused them to bind at the bushings and not travel freely. I ended up taking them off, straightening them out untill they moved nice and welding a piece of tubing in to reinforce them. It actually worked out pretty good. With my car sitting still i could sit on the front end and it would sink down then stay down when i got off. Now it jumps back up like its supposed to! I also got rid of my old CE drag shocks and bought some Calvert 90/10 shocks.
In the back i gusseted the shock tower areas to keep them from flexing and i bought New Calvert 9 way adjustable drag shocks for the rear. Now i can control how fast the rear squats. Now i just need to get a wheel alignment and hit the track. I like the idea suggested by F-bird of using the air bags and i may try that if its still an issue. I'm thinking the binding front control arms were the biggest problem then the stock rear shocks.
Brian
EDIT - i also bought brackets for the rear lower control arms so i can lower them on the diff to move my IC back. They are a weld on design by UMI. They aren't here yet.
In the back i gusseted the shock tower areas to keep them from flexing and i bought New Calvert 9 way adjustable drag shocks for the rear. Now i can control how fast the rear squats. Now i just need to get a wheel alignment and hit the track. I like the idea suggested by F-bird of using the air bags and i may try that if its still an issue. I'm thinking the binding front control arms were the biggest problem then the stock rear shocks.
Brian
EDIT - i also bought brackets for the rear lower control arms so i can lower them on the diff to move my IC back. They are a weld on design by UMI. They aren't here yet.
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com
Re: G-body traction
On those cars it is all about the back suspension.. You need those relocation brackets for the lower control arms to
stop the rear squat... And the air bags too.
When you get the rear end right so it lifts on launch a bit instead of squatting you won't need so much reaction of the front end as the back of the car will lift the front of the car, yet not squat down in the rear.
Again when the weight transfers to the back of the car on launch, the air bag springs support that weight.
And the air bags allow for right left spring load bias so the right side does not squat and or the left front does not
twist up on launch.
For a brief second essentially all the cars weight is on the rear springs. Shocks just dampen spring oscillation and over reaction.
For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
stop the rear squat... And the air bags too.
When you get the rear end right so it lifts on launch a bit instead of squatting you won't need so much reaction of the front end as the back of the car will lift the front of the car, yet not squat down in the rear.
Again when the weight transfers to the back of the car on launch, the air bag springs support that weight.
And the air bags allow for right left spring load bias so the right side does not squat and or the left front does not
twist up on launch.
For a brief second essentially all the cars weight is on the rear springs. Shocks just dampen spring oscillation and over reaction.
For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
Re: G-body traction
When you get the rear suspension modified so it lifts on launch instead of squatting you won't need or want 90-10 shock valving.
(especially on the street.) Get the relocations brackets and the air bags on and go back to more normal 50-50 60-40 shock valveing. Because the rear will now lift on launch (with the relocations brackets) you may need rear shock mount extensions as you do not want the rear shocks to top out on launch.
Those cars are set up from factory with a lot of "anti-brake dive" build into the rear geometry to stop the rear from pitching up on hard braking. But that also allows the rear suspension to squat down on launch.
The relocations brackets reverse that. You get rear lift on launch ( or at least eliminate the rear squatting) but do get more rear pitch up/front dive on hard braking, so watch the shock setup on the street.
(especially on the street.) Get the relocations brackets and the air bags on and go back to more normal 50-50 60-40 shock valveing. Because the rear will now lift on launch (with the relocations brackets) you may need rear shock mount extensions as you do not want the rear shocks to top out on launch.
Those cars are set up from factory with a lot of "anti-brake dive" build into the rear geometry to stop the rear from pitching up on hard braking. But that also allows the rear suspension to squat down on launch.
The relocations brackets reverse that. You get rear lift on launch ( or at least eliminate the rear squatting) but do get more rear pitch up/front dive on hard braking, so watch the shock setup on the street.
Re: G-body traction
The rear air bags lift the back of the car but alos as you add air the rear lower control arm ride angle changes too.
This changes the angle of that lower arm from negative to positive thus changing the rear from squat on launch to lift on launch
action. The beauti of the bags is they are easily adjusted for spring load assist AND also rear arm geometry
AND right left bias... AND you can let the air out for normal street driving, restoring the OEm built in anti dive rear geometry
which is a safety factor for safe street driving. The car is more controllable on hard braking, with the stock factory anti dive rear geometry.
remember it is still a street car. Emergency hard braking accident avoidance situations WILL occur.
You will really like the rear air bags... I use a little 12V tire compressor to adjust the air in the bags at the track.
Install with separate air lines and valves for right and left bags.
This changes the angle of that lower arm from negative to positive thus changing the rear from squat on launch to lift on launch
action. The beauti of the bags is they are easily adjusted for spring load assist AND also rear arm geometry
AND right left bias... AND you can let the air out for normal street driving, restoring the OEm built in anti dive rear geometry
which is a safety factor for safe street driving. The car is more controllable on hard braking, with the stock factory anti dive rear geometry.
remember it is still a street car. Emergency hard braking accident avoidance situations WILL occur.
You will really like the rear air bags... I use a little 12V tire compressor to adjust the air in the bags at the track.
Install with separate air lines and valves for right and left bags.
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prairiehotrodder
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Re: G-body traction
my car doesn't squat as it is. Also i have an ARB since this video was taken that is pre-loaded and prevents chassis twist. It works real good. This video is from a few years ago with my old 489 BBC and a 200 shot of nitrous. Got me in trouble!! My 540 is not far from this quick now without nitrous.
brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzD8MkXJv9A
brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzD8MkXJv9A
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com
Re: G-body traction
Ya you got rear squat. Big time. The bags do more than what the ARB can do.
The ARB cannot support car weight as in when the whole cars weight is on the back wheels.
(Wheelie)
The air bags do this and allows right left bias adjustment. Really takes the stress off the axles
and differential on launch. Lets-makes your limited slip street posi work right.
The ARB is good but it does not do this and does not correct the rear lower control arm geometry to make the rear suspension lift on launch.. The bags do and so do the lower re-location brackets.
You won't need near so much ARB preload (which restricts movement)
Right now you are just binding the rear suspension on launch to avoid right rear squat.
The air bags and relocation brackets make the rear body lift on launch to drive the rear tires into the ground for traction. Thea air bags support the total cars weight on hard launch.
The ARB cannot support car weight as in when the whole cars weight is on the back wheels.
(Wheelie)
The air bags do this and allows right left bias adjustment. Really takes the stress off the axles
and differential on launch. Lets-makes your limited slip street posi work right.
The ARB is good but it does not do this and does not correct the rear lower control arm geometry to make the rear suspension lift on launch.. The bags do and so do the lower re-location brackets.
You won't need near so much ARB preload (which restricts movement)
Right now you are just binding the rear suspension on launch to avoid right rear squat.
The air bags and relocation brackets make the rear body lift on launch to drive the rear tires into the ground for traction. Thea air bags support the total cars weight on hard launch.
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prairiehotrodder
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Re: G-body traction
prairiehotrodder wrote:is this what you are talking about?
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/air-60844
Yup them be the ones.