408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

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David Vizard
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408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:56 pm

Has anybody dyno tested AFR’s SBF 220 CNC heads on a 408? If so what results did you get. I have a build for the book I am currently doing intended for a put-it-together-at-home deal where the engine is assembled with no engine shop machinery to hand. In other words just as the typical enthusiast would with a clean home based shop full of Craftsman tools.

The spec involves using only off the shelf parts and nothing overly fancy like 0.043 wide (or less) rings, must dyno on 87 octane pump fuel and use a hydraulic cam – (roller or otherwise) Also if you were a shop selling this engine you would have to be able to put a warranty on it. All the parts costs should also total out at some sane price for the typical but serious enthusiast.

I realize it mostly comes down to how good the heads are – you can get the flow curves at http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=21_105

The AFR figs are a little over what my freshly calibrated bench delivered but only by a relatively small amount.

I would appreciate any thoughts and input as to what levels of torque and power output should be achieved to make this a successful build. (and yes Mr Kasse, I really would like to hear from the Ford Mistro!)

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by JoePorting » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:15 pm

I'd guess 575 to 600 HP. Call up Tony Mamo for a better estimate. He made the head.
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:05 pm

Tony,

If you read this whats your estimate??
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by bigjoe1 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:10 am

I have never built an engine like that to run on 87 octane-- I have built several 408 like that to run on 91 octane and with street /strip camshaft, 620 HP is pretty easy. On race gas,with more camshaft, I have seen 687 HP at 7000 with those heads


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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by mag2555 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:39 am

My question is at what point is a enthusiast concidered serious, when wanting 1.2 hp per CID, 1.5 per?
As we all know with having guidance as to the right parts even a carefull guy on a first time build can toss together a 400 CID motor with a 600 hp potencial , but if the guy has to tune it himself then the motor may never come near that potencial , or even pound out Rod bearings and fail in short order!
If I was to supply a top to bottom 408 CID with a warranty of time or miles that ran on 87 octane I would set it up to make 20 % less total power than it was capable of !
In light of my feelings on this then maybe a 220 head is not the way to go?

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by avengerengines » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:52 am

I just finished a pump gas street 408 with AFR heads. 548 hp at 6700. My dyno is about 10% less than most dynos around here.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:37 am

I see hp estimates here but no torque figures. I tend to determine the success of a build by the amount of torque it make per cube.
So - any guesses here?

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by 427dart » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:26 am

500 ft. lbs. of torque? How about something a bit different on the intake manifold on the big little Ford.
This is what I'm setting up for 2016 on my 6 yr. old 427 Windsor/Dart build...the PME dual quad Holley intake modeled after the Ford FE 427.
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This is just a setup pic. Will be using 1 1/2 inch car spacers and dual 1850 Holley carbs.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by avengerengines » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:28 am

David Vizard wrote:I see hp estimates here but no torque figures. I tend to determine the success of a build by the amount of torque it make per cube.
So - any guesses here?

DV
Mine went 512 on tq. 1.25 per cube. Out of the box AFR heads. 10-1 comp. Your thoughts?

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:10 pm

what was the LCA on the cam - 110 -- 112??
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by xr4x4ti » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:36 pm

Doesn't AFR recommend 4.125 bore for the 220 head since it has a pretty large valve that is at the stock location? (Unlike say a Highport or Z-head that moves the valves over to unshroud them on a smaller bore).

Would the 205 head be a better choice for a 87 octane pump gas?

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by avengerengines » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:51 pm

David Vizard wrote:what was the LCA on the cam - 110 -- 112??
DV

110

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:08 pm

For an engine of this configuration (bore, stroke, intake valve size, CR etc) I would recommend a 106 LCA. You could have well seen another 20 plus lbs-ft.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by avengerengines » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:21 pm

David Vizard wrote:For an engine of this configuration (bore, stroke, intake valve size, CR etc) I would recommend a 106 LCA. You could have well seen another 20 plus lbs-ft.

DV
Lobe separation is 110. Intake centerline is 106.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by induction apprentice » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:12 pm

Mr Vizard:

I have been reading your books since I was approximately age 10 to continue my personal learning curve. I'm age 47. With that said. (A) Respectfully. I feel I'm hardly qualified to comment on a question from the Vizard.
(B) I sense a second agenda lurking behind such a question from such an accomplished motor head?

But, alright I'll bite.

You made a point of 87 octane. But I'm going to make a leap, assuming water injection or octane booster is appropriate?

All tuning agent and dyno variables aside. I'm going to predict approximately 631 H.P. and 579 ft/lbs trq.

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