sjvalleydave wrote:Has anyone really answered the question, what is the most you can expect out of a LEGAL, non cheated up, Fastrack/Nesmith legal Dirt DLM 604 crate engine. LEGAL headers, etc...not all this stuff that gives all these numbers which is worthless for the application...There has to be only so much power available out of a 23* 210 cc intake runner, 10:1 compression and, most of all, a hydraulic roller cam that is 208*/221* duration and .474/.510 lift...That is a small cam...
MaxFlow wrote:Its already happening to an extent. Dropping the series to avoid the fees. Moving local racing into the forward direction is tough. Real tough. It has to become cheaper in order to have a real effect. The days of racing $200 jy engines are over. Even in bomber/4cyl fwd classes haven't taken off because of the overall expense of racing in general. $100 just to get to the track and back isn't going to work when you only make $2/300 a week. Budget classes are a thing of the past. Racing will be if we don't make it more affordable.
raceman14 wrote:Just a quick comment, you might want to start your own thread about crates and how they are this that and the other Fastrak and Nesmith have 40-60 cars at most National races as well as UMP as many as 75 cars at big events. Seems like it is working to me.
This post was about how much HP from a GM604 Crate and I have not seen a single post from a single racer or engine builder related to this.
It is easy to bash people in an open forum, and say how something is not possible to do, yet nobody has even posted their findings.
How about getting to the point.
As far as answering all of the questions; it is hard to get them all in one post so I will do a couple in each and try to get them all.
Run-it - Software and Data-AQ = PerformanceChassisDYno ( Proprietary ), absorption ( Inertia Wheel ), room 12,000sq.ft. shop with enough air to run all day long. If the weather changes the CPU will adjust with the STP Factor.
911- Ford Dry sump engines with decent heads should make 625hp with 390 carb ( old BGN ), 600-650hp with 650HP carb ( Hooters Pro-CUP ), 650-700hp with 390 carb ( newBGN ) and 850hp open carb. Carburetor HP increases in my world come from fuel mapping in 4-d just like fuel injection, my factors are engine acceleration, MAF, timing and fuel burn rate. If you are math inclined this is 4! or 24 moving targets to hit and if you factor in delta A ( acceleration rate ), and Delta T ( timing ) that is 6! or 720 variables. Add in piston speed 7! = 5040 possible outcomes...In an effort to make things doable in the real world I run timing sweeps and acceleration sweeps to somewhat make those 2 variable not variables and use a baselline piston speed and therefore dealing only with the original 4!.
I don't know what you do for a living but I hope you are good enough at so you can make money. The reason a $750 stock carburetor costs $1500 in my shop is because it is built specifically for the application it is intended for. That is why it normally takes a couple weeks to get done. I have many center sections and metering blocks built up but depending on application a 650HP can be configured any number of ways and no 2 being exactly alike. The tune for VP and Sunoco is way different as well as Chevron and Texaco pump gas. It is possible to make 430hp with any of the fuels you just have to get the fuel to the engine the way it burns the best.
If you look at any race fuel you will see a basic distillation curve and it might have 4 points. Race engine builders looking for an advantage will look way deeper and find the extra 20-30HP hidden in riding that fuel distillation curve just right. I personally call it the fuel burn curve as that is how I have my test rig set up to do my thing. There is a big reason why VP makes SuperBike fuel, Pro-Stock fuel, C-16 and hundreds of other blends.
It is a sweet symphony of success when you match piston speed, engine acceleration, fuel burn, timing curve, and fuel curve to what your race car wants. That is why some crates are 1-2 seconds faster on the engine dyno, chassis dyno and on the track.
JDR - I have tested 7 of your carbs and they decent, 2 were better than the baseline. The one new one that I purchased on e--bay better than baseline ( +6hp ). I changed power valves, 2 of the emulsion holes, installed smaller PVO, and changed the air and idle bleeds and picked up 17hp, yes it is still your carburetor with my tune-up in it. That is what I mean when I am able to match carbs to customer fuel VP-C12 in that case, nothing exotic, that is just what you get when you have the equipment and opportunity to do so. Firs pull is always Free...@ $15 per dyno pull it took 19 pulls to get the carb to this point $285. I that a lot? I guess if you don't have the $ it is, but if you are looking to win I think it is relatively cheap.
What you and everybody else out in the world and on this board needs to understand is the reason people send me stuff usually is because it does not work. In most cases it is a used piece handled and cobbled on by 10 different experts. Air bleeds are off, emulsion bleeds either not correct or in some case removed or even blocked off, PVO ( power valve orifice ) too big, Power Valves not working or completely wrong on vac setting, Idles transition slots full of dirt, metering blocks swapped around and that is just a small amount of what is screwed up. As a carb person I am sure you know this already. I have purchased a couple of your carbs off e-Bay brand new. I usually only test Brand New carbs from Carb builders that have sent me their best for evaluation and race customers that want to know where their stuff stacks up.
I first sold this guy some pushrods built in a garage by Billy Nolan, and got $2 piece for them 100 at a time. After about5 years made a bet with a very famous CUP team owner I used to buy cars from and do Chassis DYno work for, I told him $150hr or $100 HP and he said yes until he saw we picked his car up almost 47RWHP in a little over 6 hours. Shortly after that I had a contract for 25hrs a week for 2 years initially, and that program went on for 9 years until Randy Dorton passed away.
Like I said before, unless you are building and testing your Carbs and Ignition systems with the fuel you are racing with you are Pi$$ing your money away...that would be like running Hoosiers to practice with and then racing the race with a set of Goodyears.
raceman14 wrote:Camshaft on the spintron is about 15% longer on the intake duration with "treated" stock GM springs. That is just one of the reasons I am able to turn engines 6500+ and still make power.
robert1 wrote:This stuff sounds like a JC Whitney catalog to me. Everything ads 25 more HP. The Briggs by the way don't float the valves due to the springs but due to mechanical design of the lobe. They also don't chase a piston.