Merged Carb Spacers

[ChrisU]

Anyone have any experience with these?


www.faithair.net

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

Anyone have any experience with these?

Yah, sort of, he sent me email about a year ago claiming that my spacers infringed on his patent, problem for him is I was making them 20 years ago.

The price at $365 is rather steep considering the alternatives.

[larrycoyle]

Wow, I can't believe he gets $450 for one of those spacers. Talk about definitely expecting to see some tangible benefit at the racetrack...

Larry

[bigjoe1]

Many years ago I put a 4 hole spacer up in a mill and cut the bottom out so that it looked like a 4 hole stacked on top of an open spacer. I ran it with mixed results many times. When the Super Sucker cam out. I did a back to back dyno test, and there was NO real differance between the tapered tricked out one, and my crude one. Sometimes I see a very small change ( 3 HP ) and the very best gain I have ever seen was like 15 HP. JOE SHERMAN RACING

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Shoot' Guys,

For those with full pockets, meaning bucks to spend, those spacers would really make a nice conversation piece when someone sees them on your car. Imagine two of those on a tunnelram. Be good for a car show or something.

I am not knocking them but they sure look like a ton of milling to make them. I am impressed about the looks if the quality of maching and workmanship is like the pictures look. Goood for car shows.

I looked at the cars they are using as test beds and am wondering why the rpm limits are so low on all of them.

Anyway, Thanks for the link to some interesting looking pics.

Ed

[Scott Smith]

looks like a good way to put a 4500 on a 4150 flange but who in the world has that kind of hood clearance without the scoop being to the top of the windshield!

[Transman]

Scott, you just need a car without doors then you can do that!

I've decided to use a Jomar Power Cone spacer under each of the 750's on my intake. Yep, I've decided to move to two carbs since I have the top for them anyhow, and the motor will run over 7K nearly all the way down the track. Going to sell the BG 750 Demon and the Holley 750 HP as I got a pair of Quick Fuel 750's. Just need to get brave now and fill up at least one set of those 1/16" NPT bungs on the intake runners with something besides pipe plugs.

[rmcomprandy]

I've tested a lot of Martin's different spacers and they do have merit on a lot applications; don't seem to do anything on some others. Just guessing but, I think it has something to do with how efficiantly the manifold plenum processes the air/fuel charge. If it's already good, then then it doesn't help much.
I did purchase a couple because I witnessed the end result of those on MY engine. Especially the 2" 4500 to 4150 adapter which needs the manifold plenum lengthened to fit properly.
I'd buy more if I was sure it would do even a little however, it's a lot of money to throw away if NOTHING improves.

[Doug Schriefer]

There are pros and cons as with any spacer. If the intake tract is engineered properly you shouldn’t need a spacer in the first place. A spacer is a great tuning aid to adjust the power-band, or to make up for a mismatch in parts. It’s not always practical to design an intake, cylinder head, carburetor, cam profile for each application you may be able to use commonly available components and with the addition of a spacer get the performance you’re looking for.

As far as how well any spacer will work it’s a matter of what the combination requires. I’ve seen as much as 28 hp increase with a spacer change. The engine builder was so excited he wanted to put the “good” engine on the dyno which was up about 50 hp from the other, installed the new trick of the week spacer that just made 28 hp more on the last engine and it did nothing. Looking at the graphs you couldn’t even see that a change had been made.

As far as the merged spacers, they have merit, however I believe it’s a matter of how it will work with the specific intake manifold and engine signal. If you had the ability to build a merged spacer specifically to each intake manifold then you should be able to see something there.

[MadBill]

Of course, if you have a big enough shop to justify the inventory, you can have one (or two) of every spacer known to man on the shelf, and run all the likely suspects across the engine on the dyno, then just sell the customer the version that works best for his app.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I have been making and selling merged spacers for 20 years.

I think it is fair to say that the transition from the four holes on the bottom of the carb to an open plenum is too abrupt and you wouldn't want that anywhere else in your intake tract.

I guess I have sold about about 2,000 merged spacers and the feedback I have recieved has been 10% did nothing, 85% positive, 4% very positive, 1% claimed it blew the engine.

Currently I make a molded piece for the 4500 and a billet machined piece for the 4150.

Be carefull of phenolic on 4510s, the web holding the middle piece in is rather thin. Keep an eye on it, I had some phenolic delaminate one time, luckily it was noticed before it fell apart.

[Doug Schriefer]

Of course, if you have a big enough shop to justify the inventory, you can have one (or two) of every spacer known to man on the shelf, and run all the likely suspects across the engine on the dyno, then just sell the customer the version that works best for his app.

This is great when we're selling a dyno sheet (which most of us are), but the big black dyno (Racetrack) is what really counts. Moving the power band with a spacer even away from the optimal peak number can help your performance in certain situations on the track.

[Darin Morgan]

There are pros and cons as with any spacer. If the intake tract is engineered properly you shouldn’t need a spacer in the first place. A spacer is a great tuning aid to adjust the power-band, or to make up for a mismatch in parts. It’s not always practical to design an intake, cylinder head, carburetor, cam profile for each application you may be able to use commonly available components and with the addition of a spacer get the performance you’re looking for.

As far as how well any spacer will work it’s a matter of what the combination requires. I’ve seen as much as 28 hp increase with a spacer change. The engine builder was so excited he wanted to put the “good” engine on the dyno which was up about 50 hp from the other, installed the new trick of the week spacer that just made 28 hp more on the last engine and it did nothing. Looking at the graphs you couldn’t even see that a change had been made.

As far as the merged spacers, they have merit, however I believe it’s a matter of how it will work with the specific intake manifold and engine signal. If you had the ability to build a merged spacer specifically to each intake manifold then you should be able to see something there.

I agree with your statements. Well put!

Spacers are a tuning aid in some cases and will not work across the board for all engine combinations. They are more of a band-aid than anything else. In most cases the four hole 2" long spacers are the most restrictive to carb signal in high RPM engines. The 4 hole spacers that protrude down into the manifold are the worst. I have only seen about three cases in my life where they worked. Its a balance between pressure recovery dynamics and booster pulse isolation. You cant have both. You have to compromise one for the other. A standard isolation (reversion) plate seems to work rather well. All these trick spacers will net you about 6-8hp on an engine that is tuned properly. I have seen 10-12hp on very rare occasions. We dyno 275- 300 engines a year and have tried just about everything I and others have come up with. There is no magic bullet " super spacer". These things have graduated to the level of gadget over the past ten years. The Modified,Comp Eliminator and Super Stock racers where the innovators of these things many many years ago and there is nothing "new" in the market place that I or others have not tried 25 to 30 years ago!

[ChrisU]

Oh there's no doubt about all this. You have to try them all really.... I haven't tried any upside down yet

I recently dyno'd a couple engines, both high rpm pieces, but two different designs/brands.

One engine loved the Reher Morrison reverision plate/spacer assembly, and the engine didn't care much for the tapered 4 hole...

The next engine similar rpm range hated the same reversion plate, and picked up 20 horsepower with the tapered 4 hole...... there are probably some conclusions to draw based on those findings with each engine but the guarantee is that there is no guarantee....

[shawn]

I haven't tried any upside down yet

You'll laugh at this one, but i have. I even had one circle track type motor that made about 3hp more with a 1" taper spacer on upside down than it did with it right side up.
shawn