How to get a street vehicle to hook on the dragstrip?

[falcongeorge]

I always was able to hook on the street..wheelies were never a problem
If you like wheelies that is..

BUT the race track is different,,,damn thing is prepped for slicks and their compounds...

the more stuff they spray on it the worse a stock type radial hooks
And then all the people in front of you leaving all them little rubber dingleberries.....
It is like launching on marbles....1.8 is the best i ever could do on street tires at the track...and most of the time i did better with a tall skinney tire

like a 235-75-15.....it boils down to pounds per square inch
I like to get a bigger footprint with a taller tire....

you guys have fun and try all the tires you got ,,you will never know

I actually considered a 70 series 235, but I dont think they will fit.

[wjnielsen]

Glad I ran across this thread, which is intended to be general, instead of starting a new one (added bonus: nobody posts "DAFS").

I'm thinking about having some fun with trying to hook my pickup up without making it look like it should run as well as it does.

What I have is a 1954 Dodge 1/2T pickup, bone-stock suspension, except for 1" lift blocks between the front springs and axle to give me a total of 3" clearance between the pan and the axle. Rear tires are some plain ol' radial 235/75/15s.

The rear end is still the stock 4.10:1 'peg-leg', but plans are to put in a Dana or other strong axle assembly. Gears to be optomized for E.T.; I expect they'll probably be in the 4.10-4.56 range.

The trans is a manual VB 727 with some 'mystery' loose convertor. I know that this convertor will probably lose a bunch of ET, but once I have some traction, and a rear axle that I can put the spurs to... we'll talk about changing that convertor, okay?

The engine is a very simple 383 +.030, 4.25" stroke, OOTB Stealth heads, M1 tunnel ram AVS carbs, old Engle solid roller street cam (262 deg @ .050). Pistons have 20cc dishes, so the CR comes in about 9.56 or 9.58:1. Again, I know the cam is not optimum, and the CR is about a point and a half too low. For right now, let's work on traction... I plan on pulling the heads and making improvements - but can't use the power it already has right now.

I haven't weighed the truck; extrapolating from what I've removed, what I've added, and the shipping weight, I'm guessing that it weighs around 4000# with my 235 pound butt in it. I'm hoping for trap speeds to come in around 118-120 MPH, and maybe a bit more with more compression and head work.

When the rear end is replaced, it would be easy enough to drill another hole in the spring perch to locate the axle further forward on the rear spring. And, it's easy enough to slide the front axle forward an inch or so on the springs (since I have blocks, I can put a hole to accept the spring's pin, and a pin on to to locate in the axle). I'm okay with pulling a leaf or two from the front springs, re-arching 'em to keep the height, and putting in 90/10 shocks. I'm okay with adding leaves, clamping, traction bars, caltracs, or whatever on the rear springs. But, I'd like to keep an early-middle sixties vibe to the truck. No modern looking ladder bars, 4 links, etx. (yes, I know guys ran ladders 'in the day', but they didn't look like what guys run now) And I'm interested in trying to make this work w/o drag radials or slicks.

Right now, there's enough room with 235 section tires that I believe I could sneak 265/75/15 tires in there. How 'bout some snow tires - they're soft (well, for a normal street tire), right?

My thinking is that if the F.A.S.T. guys can hook up engines with more wheaties than mine's got, with smaller tires, and less obvious modifications... I should be able to make my combo work reasonably well. Like mid-elevens well; not expecting that it'll ever hook as good as a set of 12" slicks, fercryingoutloud.

DISCLAIMER: the poster understands that his street-driven pickup is not the same thing as a F.A.S.T.-class race car, which is a class-legal racing vehicle in the vein of a stock eliminator, and as such is the recipient of much expenditure of time, talent, and money.

Just so no 'internet Special Olympinas' feel that they have to start a bash-fest... last place I posted about this, all I got was "you're wasting your time with anything other than a race tire, and you'll be stuck in the fourteens if you try to run street rubber, dumbass".

So, any suggestions?

-Bill

[RCJ]

Where is the fuel tank?Might think about putting a cell at the back of the bed.Any room to set the motor back?I think it was the 65 shelby gt350 that had a traction bar above the springs.

[wjnielsen]

Right now, fuel tank is under the cab on driver's side; am intending to install one in the back of the bed, just in front of the tailgate.

Of course, I'll have to make a tonneau cover to keep people out of my fuel...

Plans are to relocate battery back there; get weight up and back as much as possible.

Unfortunately, the engine can't go back anymore w/o surgery to the firewall. Which I don't want to do because 1) I'm lazy, and 2) I have long legs and it's going to make the truck less comfortable to drive.

Oh, and did I mention I'm lazy...

-Bill

[Sandman]

I have caltracs on my car. 3500lb. I used a multileaf spring pack, but only used the 1st and 2nd spring. I turned the 2nd spring around as std, it is longer toward the rear. Then i measured from the centrebolt to the front spring eye and cut it off so that it was under the spring eye in the main leaf. Clamped the front section together. I have some cheap coil over shocks 120lb coils. have 90/10s with six cylinder springs and light swaybar on the front.
With a 10.5 slick it launchs great, with 150hp gas it carries the front wheels about 2 car lengths only about a ft off the ground, car sits nice & square, both fronts about the same height. Best 60ft so far is 1.46. With a better suited convertor and some more HP that should improve. I can't see any problem in adding another couple of hundred hp.
I have tried the caltracs in both holes, but didn't find any real difference. Probably aren't making enough hp to have them near the limit.
I have them in the top hole atm. Looking at videos, it does seperate at the rear, altho still picks the fronts up. Maybe might try them back in the bottom hole when I put new engine in.

In your pickup, you might be able to find a fuel tank that will fit low between the back chassis rails.
I figure the best way to run ballast on a streeter with normal radials is to get the weight as far back as possible and low. Then you don't have to carry much weight to make a good difference.
I used to have a towbar on my ute, and bolted to it, in under the tray, I had a couple of ft of railway line. Wasn't that heavy, but made a big difference to the traction with 245/60 radials on.

[wjnielsen]

(hefty snip)

In your pickup, you might be able to find a fuel tank that will fit low between the back chassis rails.
I figure the best way to run ballast on a streeter with normal radials is to get the weight as far back as possible and low. Then you don't have to carry much weight to make a good difference.
I used to have a towbar on my ute, and bolted to it, in under the tray, I had a couple of ft of railway line. Wasn't that heavy, but made a big difference to the traction with 245/60 radials on.

Hey Sandman, don't mean to be a dick, but I'm not seeing why I wouldn't want to try to get the weight higher up in the vehicle to transfer more weight as the truck starts to accelerate? Of course, this leaves out the fact that the higher CG will tend to make the ol' girl drive around corners even worse... but I guess I'm not going autocrossing anytime soon.

FWIW, I'm on the same page as you on the rear bumper; I'd thought of putting a round tube bumper on back, filled with sand, and capped off with pipe caps - and hanging it a coujple inches farther back than the stock bumper. And a beefy pintle tow hitch might be another good piece of ballast. And discourage tailgaiting.

Of course, I had 500# of gravel in her a few weeks ago; forgot it was back there... "hey, this thing must be down on power - it didn't spin the tires in 3rd anymore". Oh, yeah, the gravel!

BTW, I've found that Primewell offers a 265-75-15 radial. Think that might be part of the ticket, too.

Now, just to make some money to afford this; haven't had income since December. But let's not think about that right now.

-Bill

[BLACK BART]

Sandman, the reason you will transfer more weight during acceleration if you place the CG up high and rearward is because there is less resistance to the rear tires trying to drive out from under it than if it's low and forward. This is good for traction.

For going around corners the opposite applies. You want a low CG so the weight doesn't transfer to the outside of the turn causing the vehicle to handle like a pig.

CJ

[Sandman]

That way I figured it is that the further back behind the wheels I can put the weight, the better effect it will have, just by thinking of the rear axle/wheels as a pivot point.
So thinking that way, if I put 50lb, 4ft behind the axle, it should have the same effect as putting, 100lb, 2 ft behind the axle, or 200lb on top of it.
Whether my way of figuring is exactly right or not, it worked pretty good for me. I just weighed the piece I had bolted up, 52lb.
If you work on 100lb of weight equals 1/10th sec, then 50lb = .05sec loss from carrying the weight. I never did any tests on a track with 60ft timers, I would guess it picked up .5sec or more, It made the difference between going up in smoke and a pretty clean launch.
I don't know whether mounting low or high would be much different. In my case it was a ute, so low was easier, plus bolting it underneath kept it out of sight. Also it was driven all the time on the street so having it low didn't affect the handling.

[wjnielsen]

Hey Sandman,

Thanks for the clarification on why you were thinking of putting the weight down lower in the vehicle.

I'm beginning to think of a tonneau (sp?) cover, so I can stick the fuel tank and battery up high, and still not have it visible.

BTW, the way the aircraft guys measure the weight and balance stuff is to start from a reference point (usually where the engineer says the center of gravity is, or something like that), and measure the moment of weight change in lb/ft (yes, same unit as torque - how many pounds hanging what distance away from where you measure).

So, bolting in a 100# component 1 foot from the datum is... 100 lb/ft; the same as 200# located 6" away, or 50# 24 inches away.

Now, off to update my resume, which is actually the next indicated step in this truck project.

-Bill

[pdq67]

They make rear leaf springs that have a 2nd leaf that wrap's around the main leaf's front eye about 3/4's or so(?) so that it has about the same hook as a good slapper bar. Talk about stealth...........

Look up "Chicane" on the Boards and see if he can't hook you up.

pdq67

[olddragguy]

i just thought to add what we did on my 68 mustang coupe. its running a jon bennett 650 hp 418 with a california trans (art car ) fully rollered c4 with a gear vendors od. with a 9 in ford rear and 410 gears . some really cool guys in palmdale ca . set the rear up for me with rancho shocks a mono leaf fiberglass spring and slide a link. they also welded 2 studs in the trunk and gave me 300 lbs of 6 in wide diamond plate thats as wide as the trunk. if the car isnt hooking at the track we add the diamond plate till it hooks. the car runs 10.30s @135mph with a 1.35-40 60 ft. on et streets . your nova has the same problem as my stang did no weight in the ass end of the car. what these guys came up with have made my car a decent bracket car . that i dont have to worry about my 60 ft times any more .

[jeff swisher]

I have a 47 dodge truck ,,do not know if it is the same dimensions as yours in the rear framerail area,,BUT,,,I installed a gas tank from a 1984 ford E150 van,,the rear tank..

I welded flat iron about 1.5" wide down the sides of the tank on the flange that sticks out on the tank,,,then i drilled holes in that ,,and bolted the tank to the frame rails....

The filler neck was in the side of the tank and that was removed and a freeze plug braised in place,,,,then a hole was cut into the front of the tank facing the cab on the drivers side,and the filler tube was installed there and brass braised....
I then routed a long galvinized pipe down the frame rail and attached fuel hose to the tank and to the factory side filler tube in the cab,,,,,
It looks like the tank is still behind the seat ...if you look at the truck from the outside..

now 21 gallon tank all the way to the rear..fill that sucker up and you got some rear end weight,,and a low center of gravity....

[quickd100]

Glad I ran across this thread, which is intended to be general, instead of starting a new one (added bonus: nobody posts "DAFS").

I'm thinking about having some fun with trying to hook my pickup up without making it look like it should run as well as it does.

What I have is a 1954 Dodge 1/2T pickup, bone-stock suspension, except for 1" lift blocks between the front springs and axle to give me a total of 3" clearance between the pan and the axle. Rear tires are some plain ol' radial 235/75/15s.

The rear end is still the stock 4.10:1 'peg-leg', but plans are to put in a Dana or other strong axle assembly. Gears to be optomized for E.T.; I expect they'll probably be in the 4.10-4.56 range.

The trans is a manual VB 727 with some 'mystery' loose convertor. I know that this convertor will probably lose a bunch of ET, but once I have some traction, and a rear axle that I can put the spurs to... we'll talk about changing that convertor, okay?

The engine is a very simple 383 +.030, 4.25" stroke, OOTB Stealth heads, M1 tunnel ram AVS carbs, old Engle solid roller street cam (262 deg @ .050). Pistons have 20cc dishes, so the CR comes in about 9.56 or 9.58:1. Again, I know the cam is not optimum, and the CR is about a point and a half too low. For right now, let's work on traction... I plan on pulling the heads and making improvements - but can't use the power it already has right now.

I haven't weighed the truck; extrapolating from what I've removed, what I've added, and the shipping weight, I'm guessing that it weighs around 4000# with my 235 pound butt in it. I'm hoping for trap speeds to come in around 118-120 MPH, and maybe a bit more with more compression and head work.

When the rear end is replaced, it would be easy enough to drill another hole in the spring perch to locate the axle further forward on the rear spring. And, it's easy enough to slide the front axle forward an inch or so on the springs (since I have blocks, I can put a hole to accept the spring's pin, and a pin on to to locate in the axle). I'm okay with pulling a leaf or two from the front springs, re-arching 'em to keep the height, and putting in 90/10 shocks. I'm okay with adding leaves, clamping, traction bars, caltracs, or whatever on the rear springs. But, I'd like to keep an early-middle sixties vibe to the truck. No modern looking ladder bars, 4 links, etx. (yes, I know guys ran ladders 'in the day', but they didn't look like what guys run now) And I'm interested in trying to make this work w/o drag radials or slicks.

Right now, there's enough room with 235 section tires that I believe I could sneak 265/75/15 tires in there. How 'bout some snow tires - they're soft (well, for a normal street tire), right?

My thinking is that if the F.A.S.T. guys can hook up engines with more wheaties than mine's got, with smaller tires, and less obvious modifications... I should be able to make my combo work reasonably well. Like mid-elevens well; not expecting that it'll ever hook as good as a set of 12" slicks, fercryingoutloud.

DISCLAIMER: the poster understands that his street-driven pickup is not the same thing as a F.A.S.T.-class race car, which is a class-legal racing vehicle in the vein of a stock eliminator, and as such is the recipient of much expenditure of time, talent, and money.

Just so no 'internet Special Olympinas' feel that they have to start a bash-fest... last place I posted about this, all I got was "you're wasting your time with anything other than a race tire, and you'll be stuck in the fourteens if you try to run street rubber, dumbass".

So, any suggestions?

-Bill

Bill; the truck in my signature used to run a real mild 440, the best 60ft. times were 1.595, 1/4 miles time was a 12.19@106. I ran the original rear leafs with the front segments clamped, rear segments had the clamps removed. I also ran an adjustable pinion snubber. 4.56 suregrip with slicks. It had 67% over the front axle but with it's high center of gravity it weight transfered pretty well coming off the line, it usually had 6-8" of daylight under the front tires.
Since then I've installed a 528 Hemi, had to make up a 4-link for it. Last time out with the leafs both main leafs bent. The old leafs worked great up it a certain point. Dave

[quickd100]

Forgot to mention, I ended up installing a 15 gallon fuel cell due to my original steel tank getting rusty. The plastic fuel cell fit great just under the bed at the extreme rear of the box. Very little fabrication was needed. I don't like the idea of adding ANY weight to an already overweight, areodynamicly challenged truck. If anything try and take as much weight off the front end. With the suspension dialed in and your high center of gravity, it should hook and book. Dave