I thought it would be neat and useful for us non experts to generate some ideas about what makes for a reliable drag racer.
When you're at the track you will see cars that start every single time hot or cold, cars that have held together for years, and cars that won't start hot, require all kinds of work just to make it down the track, and these are not your professional cars.
So what makes for a car that works right everytime? How bout some things you know that have helped your car work more reliably.
Battery?
Charging system? Volts when running?
Fuel?
Cooling?
Wiring?
ANything?
What makes a reliable race car?
Moderator: Team
What makes a reliable race car?
The devil made me do it the first time. The second time I did it on my own.
IMO, it's wiring that kills most cars. Guys plan chassis, engine, drivetrain and even what fancy wheels, but when the car is close to done, they stand back and throw wire at it and hope it sticks. What doesn't stick they use electrical tape and zip ties to hold on. 
Don't be afraid to draw out your schematic circuits. Many times when you draw/plan, you see problems or fixes you never would have thought of. Use plenty of different circuits for components, it makes troubleshooting much simpler. Don't be afraid to use solder and shrink tubing when you join wire to connectors, or at least use the good crimp connectors that have shrink tubing already. Race cars vibrate a LOT and if it's not correctly fastened, it's gonna fall off. Lastly, use a small alternator. It doesn't weigh that much or take that much hp and it stabilizes the electrical system. AND...never let anyone armed with vise grips and a roll of electrical tape near your car.
Don't be afraid to draw out your schematic circuits. Many times when you draw/plan, you see problems or fixes you never would have thought of. Use plenty of different circuits for components, it makes troubleshooting much simpler. Don't be afraid to use solder and shrink tubing when you join wire to connectors, or at least use the good crimp connectors that have shrink tubing already. Race cars vibrate a LOT and if it's not correctly fastened, it's gonna fall off. Lastly, use a small alternator. It doesn't weigh that much or take that much hp and it stabilizes the electrical system. AND...never let anyone armed with vise grips and a roll of electrical tape near your car.Speedbump
"If it was easy, everybody would do it."
"If it was easy, everybody would do it."
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BCLS776
- Pro
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:59 pm
- Location: Fort St. John, British Columbia, Canada
Speedbump has the right idea. The only time I have missed a round in the last few years was due to a simple wiring connector gone bad. Thanfully the wiring was done pretty good on my car and the problem was easy to find.
My two rules for reliable bracket racing:
1. The track is no place for regular maintenance. Too many people show up at the track Friday night (or Saturday morning) and then start ripping apart their cars to do the maintenance they should've done before they got there. In my books, that's a recipe for something to get forgotten.
2. Keep It Simple. If you have the choice between a simple way to set something up on the car and a complicated way, take simple for bracket cars. Simple breaks down less often. Simple is easy to fix when it does break. Simple is boring, but simple wins bracket races.
Oh, maybe one more rule: if it isn't broken, don't mess with it. I have a dear friend at my local track who can't keep his hands off his car between rounds. I cringe every time I see him with a screwdriver in his hands. He's gotta mess with everything all the time to see if he can get another 0.01 ET. I think he would win more rounds and feel more relaxed if he just put fuel in the thing and left it alone.
My two rules for reliable bracket racing:
1. The track is no place for regular maintenance. Too many people show up at the track Friday night (or Saturday morning) and then start ripping apart their cars to do the maintenance they should've done before they got there. In my books, that's a recipe for something to get forgotten.
2. Keep It Simple. If you have the choice between a simple way to set something up on the car and a complicated way, take simple for bracket cars. Simple breaks down less often. Simple is easy to fix when it does break. Simple is boring, but simple wins bracket races.
Oh, maybe one more rule: if it isn't broken, don't mess with it. I have a dear friend at my local track who can't keep his hands off his car between rounds. I cringe every time I see him with a screwdriver in his hands. He's gotta mess with everything all the time to see if he can get another 0.01 ET. I think he would win more rounds and feel more relaxed if he just put fuel in the thing and left it alone.
Bryan
583 in 225" hardtail dragster
Northern Lights Raceway
583 in 225" hardtail dragster
Northern Lights Raceway
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Dragsinger
- Expert
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location:
I think long term experience is a vital part of the equation. Pay attention to details, learn from your mistakes or mishaps.
And I agree with the above post about wiring be critical. When possible use the next size larger gauge wire on everything. In the later rounds heat can be a factor and larger gauge wiring allows some margin for better amp load.
In addition, regular checking and maintaining of all systems can catch a potential problem at the shop.
Make notes about needs or changes or adjustments shortly after the race, maybe as you tow home. Doing so as the details are fresh on your mind will give you a check list for during the week.
Finally, a well prepared car helps the driver. If you put into the pit gate with the confidence your car is as ready as possible, you will drive better.
And I agree with the above post about wiring be critical. When possible use the next size larger gauge wire on everything. In the later rounds heat can be a factor and larger gauge wiring allows some margin for better amp load.
In addition, regular checking and maintaining of all systems can catch a potential problem at the shop.
Make notes about needs or changes or adjustments shortly after the race, maybe as you tow home. Doing so as the details are fresh on your mind will give you a check list for during the week.
Finally, a well prepared car helps the driver. If you put into the pit gate with the confidence your car is as ready as possible, you will drive better.
Larry Woodfin - Team Woodfin Racing - Owner, Woodfin Automotive
I agree with all the wiring stuff said before. I always use weatherpack connectors, and solder everything and shrink sleeve it. In my opinion crimp style connections are temporary at best. I also like a product from russell called 'wrap-it' and I use clamps similar to the cushion clamps used with braided hose to hold the larger sets of wiring together.
I generally also run redundant fuel and ignition systems, that way I can flip a switch and line up if theres a problem without turning a wrench. I keep the ignition boxes and coils inside the car mounted to a fabbed up panel so i can get them out easily for inspection or replacement if need be. I like to keep the ignition system on a relay for a few reasons; the first is so i can engage the starter and then kick on the ignition after the engine gets some speed on the starter (really helps hot starts with locked out ignition) the second reason is so the ignition is separated from the battery for charging to eliminate problems there.
Do not tie into the post on the battery with dozens of hot wires. Buy some of the nifty products that allow you to make a neat distribution block for power.
I run a charging system, and a large by huge aluminum radiator. While you're at it set the car up so you can drain the coolant from the block easily without making a mess because after all it is water only for racecars so it will need drained at some point if it gets freezing where you are.
A remote starter solenoid also will help with hot starts on those boiling hot summer afternoons.
I usually run a fuel system that has about 25% more capacity than what I think I will need. I always do a return style regulator on carbed stuff. Also contrary to popular practice, I like as much hard line as I can get in the fuel system then adapt it to teflon lined hose to run up to the carb. Make sure your fuel tank has enough of a vent too. I have seen a handful pick up huge power just from fixing problems with the vent.
For fuel, I personally prefer to run rocket brand e85. Still lets you get enough compression to run some cam keeps the cost down. I like to think of it as halfway to methanol, wider tuning window than gas cooling effects but none of the corrosion. Buying it in a drum keeps it the same the pump e85 changes % through the year with big swings and I don't like surprises. Also no vacuum secondary carbs ever, when your foot hits the floor all barrels should be on full.
The last thing is the toughest to learn and deal with. Everyone wants to go as fast as possible except me. All I want to do is run the same time every time. I build stuff that will run comfortably in the fast class usually all motor. I prefer a powerglide because its one less place to screw up during a run, there are other things but they are along the same line. Everything that can be done to keep the car as simple as possible in every way is.
Also I don't ever even pull a valve cover at the track thats for at home before you go. If I think its hurt it goes back home period. Oh yeah, when it gets home it goes on a battery tender so the battery is full up every time I get in it. I also like a primer button for the fuel pump so I can fill the bowls and lines if its been awhile, its also good for diagnosing problems.
Keep a notebook and keep track of everything you've done to the car start to finish so you know exactly what has been done.
Alright I quit...
I generally also run redundant fuel and ignition systems, that way I can flip a switch and line up if theres a problem without turning a wrench. I keep the ignition boxes and coils inside the car mounted to a fabbed up panel so i can get them out easily for inspection or replacement if need be. I like to keep the ignition system on a relay for a few reasons; the first is so i can engage the starter and then kick on the ignition after the engine gets some speed on the starter (really helps hot starts with locked out ignition) the second reason is so the ignition is separated from the battery for charging to eliminate problems there.
Do not tie into the post on the battery with dozens of hot wires. Buy some of the nifty products that allow you to make a neat distribution block for power.
I run a charging system, and a large by huge aluminum radiator. While you're at it set the car up so you can drain the coolant from the block easily without making a mess because after all it is water only for racecars so it will need drained at some point if it gets freezing where you are.
A remote starter solenoid also will help with hot starts on those boiling hot summer afternoons.
I usually run a fuel system that has about 25% more capacity than what I think I will need. I always do a return style regulator on carbed stuff. Also contrary to popular practice, I like as much hard line as I can get in the fuel system then adapt it to teflon lined hose to run up to the carb. Make sure your fuel tank has enough of a vent too. I have seen a handful pick up huge power just from fixing problems with the vent.
For fuel, I personally prefer to run rocket brand e85. Still lets you get enough compression to run some cam keeps the cost down. I like to think of it as halfway to methanol, wider tuning window than gas cooling effects but none of the corrosion. Buying it in a drum keeps it the same the pump e85 changes % through the year with big swings and I don't like surprises. Also no vacuum secondary carbs ever, when your foot hits the floor all barrels should be on full.
The last thing is the toughest to learn and deal with. Everyone wants to go as fast as possible except me. All I want to do is run the same time every time. I build stuff that will run comfortably in the fast class usually all motor. I prefer a powerglide because its one less place to screw up during a run, there are other things but they are along the same line. Everything that can be done to keep the car as simple as possible in every way is.
Also I don't ever even pull a valve cover at the track thats for at home before you go. If I think its hurt it goes back home period. Oh yeah, when it gets home it goes on a battery tender so the battery is full up every time I get in it. I also like a primer button for the fuel pump so I can fill the bowls and lines if its been awhile, its also good for diagnosing problems.
Keep a notebook and keep track of everything you've done to the car start to finish so you know exactly what has been done.
Alright I quit...
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Dave Koehler
- Vendor
- Posts: 7207
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:19 pm
- Location: Urbana, IL USA
- Contact:
What makes a reliable race car?
Someone else's money.
Someone else's money.
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
Enderle Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."
Enderle Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."
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curtis reed
- New Member
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:35 pm
- Location: Kiefer, OK
TRY NOT TO EVER BE IN A RUSH TO GET THRU A PROJECT, PLAN WELL AND THINK OVER EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU CLOSE THE HOOD.
I CHOSE TO BUILD A MOTOR WITH LOWER COMPRESSION AND WHEN I WANNA RIP,THROW NITROUS THRU HER...
TIGHTER CONVERTER AND TALLER GEAR MAKES DRIVING ON THE STREET EASIER...LIKE I SAID WHEN U WANNA SET FOR KILL-SPRAY!!!
I CHOSE TO BUILD A MOTOR WITH LOWER COMPRESSION AND WHEN I WANNA RIP,THROW NITROUS THRU HER...
TIGHTER CONVERTER AND TALLER GEAR MAKES DRIVING ON THE STREET EASIER...LIKE I SAID WHEN U WANNA SET FOR KILL-SPRAY!!!
Repetition.
Get into a pattern doing maintenance every week and it'll be second nature in no time. If you have problems forgetting things make a check off list. This is also great if you have others helping you - it gets done and the finger pointing doesn't exist with initialed checks.
Fixing any issue to a better condition than what caused it in the first place.
If you have some shady connectors that caused an issue and fix them - well if more of the same type of connectors exist fix those too.
Get into a pattern doing maintenance every week and it'll be second nature in no time. If you have problems forgetting things make a check off list. This is also great if you have others helping you - it gets done and the finger pointing doesn't exist with initialed checks.
Fixing any issue to a better condition than what caused it in the first place.
If you have some shady connectors that caused an issue and fix them - well if more of the same type of connectors exist fix those too.
Planning the car/build well before you start. Draw the thing up, and plan it out correctly with some foresight. (If you don't have the experience for the foresight, then borrow someone who does for the planning at least.) Buying the right 'good' parts to work with the other parts will give you greater performance than a few 'great' parts that don't match what you have. Then stick to your plans during the build.
Take your time with patience to get the vehicle to respond and run like you think it should. Then when it does, LEAVE IT ALONE!!!
The guys at my local track that are always in the late rounds are the guys that had the exact same set-up last year too. The guy that found a $5 bill on the ground, so decided to change his car to fit the new five dollar part are the ones chasing their tail.
I have also seen lots of wisdom in getting the car to it's quickest pass potential then taking a touch of timing out of it, or fattening it up a touch, or leaving the line a few rpm's down. Keeps stuff a little safer, and just that much further from the breaking point. Also more consistent when the track goes away.
And finally, more rear tire/traction than the vehicle needs. If you are looking for consistency, never be on the edge of traction.
And there is always the "Luck" button.
Take your time with patience to get the vehicle to respond and run like you think it should. Then when it does, LEAVE IT ALONE!!!
The guys at my local track that are always in the late rounds are the guys that had the exact same set-up last year too. The guy that found a $5 bill on the ground, so decided to change his car to fit the new five dollar part are the ones chasing their tail.
I have also seen lots of wisdom in getting the car to it's quickest pass potential then taking a touch of timing out of it, or fattening it up a touch, or leaving the line a few rpm's down. Keeps stuff a little safer, and just that much further from the breaking point. Also more consistent when the track goes away.
And finally, more rear tire/traction than the vehicle needs. If you are looking for consistency, never be on the edge of traction.
And there is always the "Luck" button.
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cash canada
- New Member
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:01 pm
- Location: SC
Never take the car out of the shop until its as good as you can get it.
It will get better every time because you can always find areas for improvements in safety and reliability.
Also as your regular maintenace becomes routine, you become more efficient and can find ways to "keep that bolt from loosening" or keep that header gasket from leaking, etc.
Do all work as if you are fixing it for the last time and don't say next time I pull service I will "fix it right".
Turn you fix and adjust before every race list into an inspect before every race list.
It will get better every time because you can always find areas for improvements in safety and reliability.
Also as your regular maintenace becomes routine, you become more efficient and can find ways to "keep that bolt from loosening" or keep that header gasket from leaking, etc.
Do all work as if you are fixing it for the last time and don't say next time I pull service I will "fix it right".
Turn you fix and adjust before every race list into an inspect before every race list.