How "GREEN" is a hybrid or electric car after you factor in the ivironmental impact batteries or the acid has on the Earth.
I dont know the answers just was a thought
Green cars
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I'm not sure but I watched that show "who killed the electric car"
that was about the biggest crockumentary I've ever seen.
They found everybody guilty except the batteries when the batteries were probably the largest deciding factor. now admittedly, IMO GM should have let the people keep their cars (maybe, who knows what their reasons were).
Gasoline is a nearly free energy source for humanity. And we all know that energy is neither created nor destroyed and every step or conversion from one form to another is never 100% efficient.
Do I think electrics are the "future", yes. But at this time the energy it would take to power them without gasoline and with current battery technology just isn't there yet. Well at least the batteries aren't. Energy would possible be possible with nuclear but there's the environmental issues associated with it.
to address your question about batteries, lead acid batteries, it's easy to neutralize the acid, all it takes is lye (which is found naturally in wood ashes) and the result of the acid with lye is basically sulphur, water and salt.
The lead is a different story though.
Most any newer batteries are going to be using a dry cell approach. They did talk about this "new battery" in the "who killed the electric car" saying it wasn't sold in the USA, which I think is also wrong. I know that that type of battery can be purchased for digital cameras and the like.
Lithium is a pretty popular type, the down side is lithium is used to treat psychotics (curt kobain for example) and I'm not sure how all that would play out...
that was about the biggest crockumentary I've ever seen.
They found everybody guilty except the batteries when the batteries were probably the largest deciding factor. now admittedly, IMO GM should have let the people keep their cars (maybe, who knows what their reasons were).
Gasoline is a nearly free energy source for humanity. And we all know that energy is neither created nor destroyed and every step or conversion from one form to another is never 100% efficient.
Do I think electrics are the "future", yes. But at this time the energy it would take to power them without gasoline and with current battery technology just isn't there yet. Well at least the batteries aren't. Energy would possible be possible with nuclear but there's the environmental issues associated with it.
to address your question about batteries, lead acid batteries, it's easy to neutralize the acid, all it takes is lye (which is found naturally in wood ashes) and the result of the acid with lye is basically sulphur, water and salt.
The lead is a different story though.
Most any newer batteries are going to be using a dry cell approach. They did talk about this "new battery" in the "who killed the electric car" saying it wasn't sold in the USA, which I think is also wrong. I know that that type of battery can be purchased for digital cameras and the like.
Lithium is a pretty popular type, the down side is lithium is used to treat psychotics (curt kobain for example) and I'm not sure how all that would play out...
I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.
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David Redszus
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Putting aside, for a moment, the issue of battery efficiency, there remains the issue of how energy gets into the battery.
Batteries, regardless of design, still need to be charged. The electrical current necessary to charge the battery must come from some conventional source, be it nuclear, coal, hydo, etc.
When the total cost and enviornmental impact of the complete support system is factored into the equation we find:
Electric cars are not very fuel efficient.
Electric cars are not very enviornmentally friendly.
Electric cars are expensive to build.
Electric cars are difficult to repair (read costly) are will need to be replaced rather than repaired.
The bottom line looks something like this.
Green (electric) cars can reduce LOCAL emissions but not global.
Electric cars can provide a benefit in high density metropolitan applications.
Electric cars are the current political buzz word and technological darlings that have a very long way to go.
If the price of petroleum drops (very likely) electric cars will be history.
On the other hand, battery powered RC cars (equipped with on-board video cameras) are an absolute blast and may replace real racing in the not too distant future if the libs have their way.
Batteries, regardless of design, still need to be charged. The electrical current necessary to charge the battery must come from some conventional source, be it nuclear, coal, hydo, etc.
When the total cost and enviornmental impact of the complete support system is factored into the equation we find:
Electric cars are not very fuel efficient.
Electric cars are not very enviornmentally friendly.
Electric cars are expensive to build.
Electric cars are difficult to repair (read costly) are will need to be replaced rather than repaired.
The bottom line looks something like this.
Green (electric) cars can reduce LOCAL emissions but not global.
Electric cars can provide a benefit in high density metropolitan applications.
Electric cars are the current political buzz word and technological darlings that have a very long way to go.
If the price of petroleum drops (very likely) electric cars will be history.
On the other hand, battery powered RC cars (equipped with on-board video cameras) are an absolute blast and may replace real racing in the not too distant future if the libs have their way.
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Monkeywrench
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- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:14 pm
- Location: South NJ
The "greenest" cars out there are compacts from the early to the late 80's. 40+mpg, and you're recycling.
I'm surprised we haven't seen much in the way of diesel/electric in the car market. How hard could it be to build a small displacement, high torque diesel that runs near idle and powers an electric motor? The technology has been refined for 50+ years now.
We have the technology to get MUCH better mpg than we are getting, but car makers, the government (safety features), and the consumers need to get their heads out of their butts, and make smaller, lighter cars again. Crap, you're new Civics weigh 2800lbs now and have 16"+ wheels standard.
I'm surprised we haven't seen much in the way of diesel/electric in the car market. How hard could it be to build a small displacement, high torque diesel that runs near idle and powers an electric motor? The technology has been refined for 50+ years now.
We have the technology to get MUCH better mpg than we are getting, but car makers, the government (safety features), and the consumers need to get their heads out of their butts, and make smaller, lighter cars again. Crap, you're new Civics weigh 2800lbs now and have 16"+ wheels standard.
-Bob
and that is basically the crux of the issue. Electric cars will come to be, just right now they are not financially or environmentally viable IMO.David Redszus wrote:Putting aside, for a moment, the issue of battery efficiency, there remains the issue of how energy gets into the battery.
Batteries, regardless of design, still need to be charged. The electrical current necessary to charge the battery must come from some conventional source, be it nuclear, coal, hydo, etc.
When the total cost and enviornmental impact of the complete support system is factored into the equation we find:
Electric cars are not very fuel efficient.
Electric cars are not very enviornmentally friendly.
Electric cars are expensive to build.
Electric cars are difficult to repair (read costly) are will need to be replaced rather than repaired.
The bottom line looks something like this.
Green (electric) cars can reduce LOCAL emissions but not global.
Electric cars can provide a benefit in high density metropolitan applications.
as you said, locally eco friendly, but not globally
the upside is that with centralized power stations the environmental contamination can be better contained and dealt with.
Consider what the air quality would be if everybody burned wood for heat, very dirty, but using coal power that same energy can be dispersed (after the infrastructure is in place) much easier than harvesting wood and it is exponentially cleaner and better on the environment, regardless of the bad rep coal power has.
It's often hard to observe a situation as an outside observer where emotions play a lot smaller role in views and decisions.
I'd also like to think that people would be looking a LOT closer at regenerative braking.... esp for stop and go traffic, possibly even if it was in the form of a large gyro as I think for a short term energy storage device this would be much more efficient than any electric can be at it's current technology level.
Last edited by F1Fever on Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.
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Monkeywrench
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Actually, I had a 2-tone green paint scheme in mind for my '57 Chevy, Engguy. But every time I hear 'green this' and 'green that' in the media, it reminds me of the 'Big Lie' (so-called 'human-induced global warming') and I think of what is being done to America and to Americans in the name of phony 'environmentalism'...... And I get so angry that I just see red!
Best regards,
Harry
Best regards,
Harry