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Block filler - .100" over 454

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Block filler - .100" over 454

Postby e-tach » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:01 am

Hey gang-

I have a std bore BBC 454 block for a pull truck, that will not be street driven at all. Will be boring it .100" over. I am figuring I will have to use block filler, and was wondering on whether to do a "short fill" or "tall fill". Any input from you guys would be great!

I also have a few other questions pertaining to Hard Block.

1. The block has been cleaned. Is it best to apply the filler now - before the decking/boring operations? I for sure wasnt going to hone it beforehand - but didnt know if it neded to be poured before the boring itself.

2. Probably a good idea to bolt the head on afterwards to stress everything?

3. Any hints or tricks to the mixing - or just follow the instructions?

4. Just pour it in through the water holes in the deck?

5. As far as "jarring" the block (for product settling), what do you guys use here, and how long should you do this for?

6. And finally - any opinions on how long this should cure before doing the other side, and then before doing any machine work?

I know instructions come with the filler, but I know many of you a more familiar with the product - and I value your input!
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Postby rustbucket79 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:16 am

I'm going to assume the block passed magnaflux/sonic test/general inspection and all is good to go for .100 over.

I like working with the Moroso block fill, it's easy to use and gives you time to work.

Block clean, before any machining, frost plugs installed, mounted on an engine stand, deck of block level to the world, locked so it can't roll or tip. Head ready for install (I use a torque plate, but either or, be prepared including hardware).

I use an air hammer with an aluminum tipped bit, set fairly low to settle the mixture. Mix as per instructions (you'll need 2 bottles per side IIRC for a full fill) I use one of the empty jugs with the top cut off and a mixing bit (like a paint mixer, I fabbed one out of a pushrod and a couple of SBF rocker fulcrum locators) spun at a very low speed or you'll have an increadible mess. Mix for a minute or so, then pour 1/3 of the mixture through all the big holes in the deck. Vibrate around the perimiter of the fill with the air hammer, you'll see it settle almost immediately. Keep adding the fill alternating with vibrating (a rubber mallet should work fairly well if you don't have an air hammer) and of course you'll need to mix the second batch, continue until the fill reaches the bottom of the waterpump hole. I like to do the final vibrate for a good minute or two, and use a piece of gas welding rod to measure for equal fill on all corners. Bolt the head on, and let it set at least 3 days before rolling the block over and doing the other bank. I do my best to let it set (once both sides are filled) at least 3 weeks.

---> Most important information, call the tech of your pistons and get the proper clearancing information for a filled block.
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Postby Keith Morganstein » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:14 am

rustbucket79 wrote:I'm going to assume the block passed magnaflux/sonic test/general inspection and all is good to go for .100 over.

I like working with the Moroso block fill, it's easy to use and gives you time to work.

Block clean, before any machining, frost plugs installed, mounted on an engine stand, deck of block level to the world, locked so it can't roll or tip. Head ready for install (I use a torque plate, but either or, be prepared including hardware).

I use an air hammer with an aluminum tipped bit, set fairly low to settle the mixture. Mix as per instructions (you'll need 2 bottles per side IIRC for a full fill) I use one of the empty jugs with the top cut off and a mixing bit (like a paint mixer, I fabbed one out of a pushrod and a couple of SBF rocker fulcrum locators) spun at a very low speed or you'll have an increadible mess. Mix for a minute or so, then pour 1/3 of the mixture through all the big holes in the deck. Vibrate around the perimiter of the fill with the air hammer, you'll see it settle almost immediately. Keep adding the fill alternating with vibrating (a rubber mallet should work fairly well if you don't have an air hammer) and of course you'll need to mix the second batch, continue until the fill reaches the bottom of the waterpump hole. I like to do the final vibrate for a good minute or two, and use a piece of gas welding rod to measure for equal fill on all corners. Bolt the head on, and let it set at least 3 days before rolling the block over and doing the other bank. I do my best to let it set (once both sides are filled) at least 3 weeks.

---> Most important information, call the tech of your pistons and get the proper clearancing information for a filled block.


I will just add onto the above.

Definitely fill before any machining. The filler will change things.

Filler cures (hydrates) like concrete.
3 days 25% strength
7 days 60% strength
28 days 100% strength


The biggest thing is to be 100% prepared for the cleaning and filling. It's not something you want to rush into and you have limited working time.

Clean the block with muriatic acid before the fill. About 1/2 hour a side is enough and then rinse well. Protect your concrete floor when doing this. Wear respirator and have ventilation (It's nasty). Have extra catch pans and clean-up supplies on hand.

I just mix the Moroso in the bottle by shaking with the cap on it as instructed. Thinner mixture flows easily, but will have less strength than a thicker mixture. The Moroso recommendations are about right.

Have funnels ready for the pour

Have a "stick" to measure as said above. Pre-mark the stick before you start.

I use a rubber tipped air chisel to rattle the block and settle the filler.

Once it's in, the filler is NOT coming out , so you want to do it correctly.

I would only tall fill an alcohol fuel block.
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Postby Horndog » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:20 am

Filling a block is a job not to get in a hurry doing. If you have a buddy who can rattle the block as you are pouring the fill, it helps.

Time spent in the prep stages will pay off.
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Postby e-tach » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:28 pm

Thanks for all the great tips, guys! Definitely what I was looking for.

I have a few questions though.

1. This is not a alcohol motor, so would the short fill be enough? Which fill is it to get to reight below the water pump holes, this is what I thought I needed, but I know you guys will steer me in the right direction.

2. As far as the 28 days for curing - does that mean the engine should not run for 28 days, or this is how long you sould wait before doing the machining?

Thanks again!!! Kudos speedtalkers!
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Postby want-a-be » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:09 pm

I'd fill to the bottom of the water holes. I also use the air hammer deal to vibrate the block in order to settle the Hard Block. I use a flow control in the inlet air so it can be turned down and limit how hard you hit the block.

I filled a SBC block of mine that ran on gas at the time. It actually cooled better after I filled it. But you may need to watch oil temp depending on the use.

Don
Last edited by want-a-be on Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rustbucket79 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:29 pm

I let it sit the 28 days before it receives any machining.
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Postby e-tach » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:10 pm

want-a-be wrote:I'd fill to the bottom of the water holes.

Don


Meaning to the bottom of the water pump holes?
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Postby rustbucket79 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:23 am

Correct, to the bottom of the water pump holes.
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Postby Keith Morganstein » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:47 am

Before you do the "half fill" on any make of block, look it over carefully

You want the coolant to flow, so make sure you do not fill so much as to block the coolant flow from the cylinders to the water pump.

Tip the block on the stand so one deck is level and then re-evaluate this. (this is the position for the fill, one side at a time, engine tipped so the deck is level)

Also, look where the rings will be at the bottom of the stroke, this is another guide on how high to fill.

Yes, wait till machining, prefer the 28 days, but at least more than 7 days.

Leave the head torqued to the block for at least 7 days after filling as well.

You will block the water drains by doing this. Most drill and tap drain holes higher.
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Postby sleeper sedan » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:03 pm

want-a-be wrote:... cooled better after I filled it. But you may need to watch oil temp depending on the use.

Don


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Postby want-a-be » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:48 pm

e-tach wrote:
want-a-be wrote:I'd fill to the bottom of the water holes.

Don


Meaning to the bottom of the water pump holes?


Yes,...sorry for not saying that correctly.

Don
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Postby bubba2400 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:15 pm

The shop that did my pulling truck motor .100 over did the same. Filled to bottom of water pump holes then did machine work. This is run on Gas and has never had overheating problems, actually have a hard time getting heat into it. Oil temp is never a problem either. If this is a pulling only motor there should be no worry, they don't run for a long time.
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Postby e-tach » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:31 pm

Okay finally ready to fill the block sometime this week. I appreciate all your input so far.

I am planning on filling to the bottom of the water pump holes. I have a tall fill kit. Would I be using all of this for the big block Chev application?

I want to have all my ducks in a row prior to doing this, I know there is very limited time to work.
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Postby Alan Roehrich » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:33 pm

e-tach wrote:Okay finally ready to fill the block sometime this week. I appreciate all your input so far.

I am planning on filling to the bottom of the water pump holes. I have a tall fill kit. Would I be using all of this for the big block Chev application?

I want to have all my ducks in a row prior to doing this, I know there is very limited time to work.


Yes, one bag per side, you'll have a little left over.
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