VP Q16 eating rubber? Shelf life?

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MadBill
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Post by MadBill » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:24 pm

MTBE is Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether. I have no idea what it's properties are, but it's apparently sometimes used for dissolving gallstones (!?)
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

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Post by ClassKing » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:42 am

Let me tell you what I know about this.






nothing.



It's late and I'm hittin the fart sack~ :)
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Post by David Redszus » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:12 am

During WWII, the military did extensive research to find fuel additives that would improve the performance of piston powered fighter planes. They tested 32 different compounds for octane, ignition, evaporation, etc.

The winning compound was......MTBE.

For those who are interested, I can email the NACA report that details the test results. It will put you to sleep i a hurry.

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Post by 555RAT » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:51 am

cs19, have you found it necessary to modify the carb to make it idle, and run properly with the Q16. A friend of mine could not get the idle circuit rich enough to idle properly. Just wondering what you had to do as far as modifications. Thanks.
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Post by cs19 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:29 am

We only made jetting changes, did not have any idle problems.

We are hesitant to run the Q16, will use F&L until we get some feedback. Draining the fuel system is a huge pain for us.

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Post by 383Malibu » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:54 pm

Here's the response from a VP rep on Yellow Bullet:

"The reason we recommend draining the fuel is to preserve the integrity of the fuel. If you leave it in the cell, the oxygen and light ends of the fuel will start to evaporate. The fuel won't harm lines or carbs or anything like that. We just want you to protect your investment and keep the fuel in a sealed drum when you aren't racing."
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Post by ClassKing » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:58 am

This is a real deal if any of you guys aren't aware of it. Keeping fuel fresh is very necessary. Those end gases go away quickly.
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Post by cs19 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:21 am

As far as keeping fuel fresh goes.. Is it a bad idea to vent off the pressure in 30 and 55 gallon barrles when they get hot when transporting in the back of your truck? I get nervous when I see the barrel swelling from pressure inside.

Good to hear Q16 wont hurt carbs or fuel lines, thats good to hear.


CS

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Post by ClassKing » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:33 am

Yeah, it'd be nice to know when the pressure is getting dangerous. We lost pressure in two air tanks last week. Pop off valve popped with the air tanks in the back of my truck/Camper Special. It was over 130 in there.

I only use 5 gallon jugs and keep an eye on them.
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Post by MadBill » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:14 am

Perhaps a real expert or two will chime in, but as I understand it, the best refiners try to formulate race fuel so that there is minimal or no loss of octane rating as the lighter fractions boil off (Some formulations may even gain! I've heard of fuel being deliberately vaporized from the drum by blowing warm air through, to improve the properties of the remaining mix for some specific application, while remaining legal), but this is not always possible, so storage in a cool spot out of the sun is recommended.
I don't know how much pressure a drum would have to safely contain, but totally sealing one and parking it in the Arizona sun for the day sounds like a recipe for disaster... :shock:
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Post by David Redszus » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:50 am

I don't know how much pressure a drum would have to safely contain, but totally sealing one and parking it in the Arizona sun for the day sounds like a recipe for disaster... :
Fuel storage and handling can be a major problem if not performed correctly. Many excellent fuel blends are allowed to deteriorate due to improper handling.

The general rule is to treat high quality race fuels like champange; keep them away from heat, light and air.

In a drum, heat will cause a rise in pressure in proportion to the RVP and temperature. Since the pressure will apply against the entire surface area, you can multiply the pressure by surface area to see how much force is trying to rupture the drum. Never allow a drum to stand in direct sunlight or even in an enclosed trailer that is not properly vented.

A partially filled drum is particularly subject to the effects of heat since the lighter fuel fractions will evaporate into the drum internal air space. When the drum is opened, a loud hissing sound is apparent. That is the sound of money and performance escaping. A fuel blender goes to great lengths to put and keep those light fractions in the fuel.

At about 100F, fuels will be to slowly oxidize forming gums that will end up on the carb surfaces.

Light exposure is only a problem when translucent fuel jugs are exposed to sunlight. Ultra-violet light will cause the TEL or TML in a fuel to decompose and produce a lead precipitate. Now you have lost (or severely reduced) the octane properties of the fuel. Unleaded fuels are not affected by sunlight. You can test the concept by putting a leaded fuel in a glass fruit jar and placing it in direct sunlight for a few hours.

Air exposure, as in open containers, will cause fuel evaporative loss and with some fuels, moisture absorbtion. Fuel is composed of heads (lighter fractions), bodies (middle fractions), and tails (heavy fractions). Each has a role to play in the performance of a fuel.

The light fractions evaporate easily and are the igniters the make ignition easier. The middle fractions contain most of the octane of the fuel. The tails provide fuel economy and some octane value.

If a fuel is prone to pre-ignition, it would be possible to drive off the light ends. But it would be difficult to know when to stop. It would much better to obtain the proper fuel in the first place. Or to work with a competent fuel blender who could use the proper fuel components to blend a custom fuel that is suitable for the application.

As in interesting sidebar, all gasoline fuels contain virtually the same heat energy per pound of air burned. Yet they may produce significantly different performance in a specific engine. It really depends on how the fuel is burned. Our job as fuel tuners is to give the engine what it wants.

And all engines, just like women, are different.

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Re: VP Q16 eating rubber? Shelf life?

Post by ezstang » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:24 pm

I use the Jegs push-loc hose and never had any problems until I left the Q16 in the fuel cell for about a week. Some of the lines where the fittings connect started seeping out and dripping. I'm done using it forever. Besides..it only made 12 more HP on the dyno. :(

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Re:

Post by dieselgeek » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:27 pm

ClassKing wrote:This is a real deal if any of you guys aren't aware of it. Keeping fuel fresh is very necessary. Those end gases go away quickly.

x2

Shelf life of Q16 is "a few days" based on what I've observed. LAst season's fuel is junk no matter how well you seal the container.

Also, don't presume it's always worth "extra power" unless you dyno it. It made no more power on our EMC motor than California pump swill. Obviously that's not always the case but do not buy into the "it always makes more power" hype without testing first.
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Re: VP Q16 eating rubber? Shelf life?

Post by SilverXJ » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:46 pm

ezstang wrote:I use the Jegs push-loc hose and never had any problems until I left the Q16 in the fuel cell for about a week. Some of the lines where the fittings connect started seeping out and dripping. I'm done using it forever. Besides..it only made 12 more HP on the dyno. :(
The push-loc hose is made by Parker. I don't think they recommend using fuel in them.

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Re:

Post by Lem Evans » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:35 pm

Dodge Freak wrote:I thought MTBE was not being used any more in pump gasoline. It was harming the ground water.
Only if a in ground tank was/is leaking.
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