Used Centroid ?

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apm
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Used Centroid ?

Post by apm » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:42 pm

Hi Guys
Anyone know of a used centroid A560 or a B4250 for sale ? Or if they ever even come up? let me know
Thanks

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by smeg » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:33 am

Why used?
They are worth more after you have done years of port programs to go with them, when new, they come with no programs, you have to do them yourself. If there was a good second hand machine available with lots of porting programs with it, would that not be worth a lot more to someone who just wants to get into the game the easy way?

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by racear2865 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:02 am

please excuse me to make an observation, A Centroid is not a true 5 axis machine. In reality it is 3 + 2, which means in reality it can only be used on blocks and heads. Can never be used for any type production use as a result. There are several other machines out there that are true 5 axis. When ready for resale can only go into automotive use.
reed

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:08 pm

Narrow that down some Reed if you please.
If the head swings left and right as well as up and down, along with a 4th axis rolling to and fro and a bed shifting left, right, forward and backward
Whats' not to like?
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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by smeg » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:38 pm

racear2865 wrote:please excuse me to make an observation, A Centroid is not a true 5 axis machine. In reality it is 3 + 2, which means in reality it can only be used on blocks and heads. Can never be used for any type production use as a result. There are several other machines out there that are true 5 axis. When ready for resale can only go into automotive use.
reed
Sorry Reed,
if the machine can machine in 5 axis and in their own advertising say's, If you can dream it, it can make it, what is wrong with that?
It can even machine billet turbo wheels in 5 axis. What can a "true" 5 axis machine do that this can't?

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by apm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:49 pm

Im not looking into making parts, I am an engine machine shop so thats all im looking to do, also a used rottler p65htc or similar would be an option aswell, I can do all my own port programs but I mainly want the machine to do block work.
Thanks guys

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:58 pm

apm wrote:Im not looking into making parts, I am an engine machine shop so thats all im looking to do, also a used rottler p65htc or similar would be an option aswell, I can do all my own port programs but I mainly want the machine to do block work.
Thanks guys
You say that now.......
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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by apm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:50 pm

I think I have enough engine work that it should be flat out just doing that , maybe id have to buy another machine to make stuff later on ?

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by racear2865 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:15 pm

smeg wrote:
racear2865 wrote:please excuse me to make an observation, A Centroid is not a true 5 axis machine. In reality it is 3 + 2, which means in reality it can only be used on blocks and heads. Can never be used for any type production use as a result. There are several other machines out there that are true 5 axis. When ready for resale can only go into automotive use.
reed
Sorry Reed,
if the machine can machine in 5 axis and in their own advertising say's, If you can dream it, it can make it, what is wrong with that?
It can even machine billet turbo wheels in 5 axis. What can a "true" 5 axis machine do that this can't?
smeg and Dave
Im not speaking of Centroid software or their Industrial factory, Im only speaking of the A560 type with the rocker head for doing cylinder heads and I will leave it at that. If you want to look at the 5th axis use, take a look at the Mazak as well as others. Ya know I was in industry for 34 years and purchased and used as well as programmed many 4 and 5 axis and even more axis machines and I traveled to many many plants and not once did I ever see a Centroid in use. So think "why not". Hey Im sorry for the input, for the money and your use, the Centroid is quite inexpensive and will do any thing you will probably need
reed

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by racear2865 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:27 pm

Ok Im sorry I didnt answer your question. Im not trying to talk u out of the Centroid as it will do what you want. I got slightly distracted. There are basically different types of 5 axis machining. 3+2 is called 5 sided machining and other is Simultaneous 5 axis or full 5-axis.. Both have some advantages 3+2 is more simple to program and full 5 gives longer tool life as well as better surface finish and has one definite advantage in that it can get into difficult positions smoothly.
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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:03 am

Reed,
I respect your background and knowledge on these subjects.
So you think the pivoting head of the 560 is too weak for doing aluminum and cast iron or the end product quality goes in the dumper with steel?
That might be right I think. Doing really fast FPS and large lots of production work, I could see your point.

The problem most guys here run into is that machines in the same price range do not have near the z height and x length needed for block work, etc.
To get one tall enough one would have to go at least twice the money, yes?
Most likely someone like Dart could justify it but race shops and job shops would have a tough time with the ROI.

I always wondered if anyone ever ran a 560 with the rocking head versus the 536 with the rocking table as far as end finish was concerned.
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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by apm » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:13 am

Anyone know where I could look or ask for a used machine like either the centroid or a rottler ?

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Jamison equipment had a rottler available at one time.
Other than that google for auto machine shop equipment to find the other reps. and independents.
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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:40 pm

Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
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http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."

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Re: Used Centroid ?

Post by Dave Koehler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:04 pm

As far as new stuff this might be a consideration.
http://tnsmachines.com/blueprint/

You can get a 4 axis bed mill used and probably have less than 50K in it with tooling.
What you don't get is the automotive blueprint programs already set up.
That is what you really pay dearly for from Centroid, Rottler and others.

I discovered sadly that Centroid won't unlock that program on my Centroid equipped machine for any amount of money.
It only gets unlocked on their 250K+ machine.
So, I am ever so slowly figuring it out on my own. Don't really need it for what I do but do want it just in case......
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
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