Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

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prairiehotrodder
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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by prairiehotrodder » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:29 pm

ok, one last post on Evolution

I might be willing to believe in a version of evolution. The reason why coyotes have thicker fur where i live than they do in arizona.
but not "molecules to man" evolution.
As far as the common ancestor statement. That is not opposed to a biblical creation worldview.
The Bible says we all came from Adam. Then later from Noah after the flood.

GRT - i can't fault you for not putting the time in. You definitly have done your homework. I could post tons of links to creation websites, scientists and much more educated then me experts however as you stated about me, that would be a exercise in futility.
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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by GRTfast » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:47 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:29 pm
ok, one last post on Evolution

I might be willing to believe in a version of evolution. The reason why coyotes have thicker fur where i live than they do in arizona.
but not "molecules to man" evolution.
As far as the common ancestor statement. That is not opposed to a biblical creation worldview.
The Bible says we all came from Adam. Then later from Noah after the flood.

GRT - i can't fault you for not putting the time in. You definitly have done your homework. I could post tons of links to creation websites, scientists and much more educated then me experts however as you stated about me, that would be a exercise in futility.
It would be rational to be willing to believe anything that can be demonstrated or that is backed with enough evidence to warrant belief. If you are rejecting evidence based claims because they don't jive with your faith based position, that is by definition irrational. The process that leads to wolves having thicker coats in colder environments is evolution by natural selection. That process is all that is required to explain the diversity of life on this planet. The part that is hard for people to grasp is the time it takes, and just how old the earth is. You can say the words "4.5 billion years", but it is really difficult to actually comprehend that span of time.

It would not be an exercise in futility If you could provide some conclusive, observable and repeatable scientific data backing your claims. If you did so, I would believe them. I like finding out I am wrong, because I don’t have to be wrong anymore.

I am not an atheist because I want to be one. I did not decide to be an atheist. I realized I was an atheist once I decided to make sure my beliefs were rationally justified and sufficiently warranted. If you can provide rational justification and sufficient evidence to warrant belief in your claims, I’ll believe them.

It all comes down to what one classifies as rational justification and sufficient evidence. As a skeptic, those filters are fairly stringent for me. I am comfortable saying “I don’t know” when I don’t know. Remember, I'm not saying I know there is no god, I'm saying I'm not convinced that there is a god or gods.

I’m also comfortable backing my claims with real tangible evidence that can be independently verified. After all, that is what makes sense.

I am fascinated by, and dumbfounded how you can accept the Noah story as fact, while rejecting the fact that all life on earth has a common ancestor. Why do you not apply the same scrutiny and skepticism to both claims? One is a fairy tale that is not physically possible as far as we know, and one is a fact as much as anything we know is a fact. You accept the implausible fairy tale without question, and reject the incredibly solidly backed fact.

I just don’t get it how you can feel that is a rational and justified way of thinking.

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by prairiehotrodder » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:53 pm

i have a friend reading through this topic but he is not a member. He says:


I was reading some of the debate. Actually, life on other planets is not possible. Scientifically and experimentally disproven. The experiments of Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur showed that spontaneous generation is impossible. One of the strongest proven scientific principles is that life only comes from life. People who advocate life on other planets must believe that life comes from nonliving material through spontaneous generation. This is impossible.
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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:24 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:53 pm
i have a friend reading through this topic but he is not a member. He says:


I was reading some of the debate. Actually, life on other planets is not possible. Scientifically and experimentally disproven. The experiments of Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur showed that spontaneous generation is impossible. One of the strongest proven scientific principles is that life only comes from life. People who advocate life on other planets must believe that life comes from nonliving material through spontaneous generation. This is impossible.
John
Have you considered the second law ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by j-c-c » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:14 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:53 pm
i have a friend reading through this topic but he is not a member. He says:


I was reading some of the debate. Actually, life on other planets is not possible. Scientifically and experimentally disproven. The experiments of Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur showed that spontaneous generation is impossible. One of the strongest proven scientific principles is that life only comes from life. People who advocate life on other planets must believe that life comes from nonliving material through spontaneous generation. This is impossible.
John
Did your "friend" review the long list of other "impossibilities" mankind has solved over the centuries, before making this rather arrogant statement?

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by GRTfast » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:07 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:53 pm
i have a friend reading through this topic but he is not a member. He says:


I was reading some of the debate. Actually, life on other planets is not possible. Scientifically and experimentally disproven. The experiments of Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur showed that spontaneous generation is impossible. One of the strongest proven scientific principles is that life only comes from life. People who advocate life on other planets must believe that life comes from nonliving material through spontaneous generation. This is impossible.
John
Spontaneous generation is an outdated concept. The claim that life arising from non life is absolutely impossible based on these experiments is fallacious. At best they have ruled out a particular mechanism or hypothesis of a form of abiogenesis. It appears the the transition from non life to life was likely a gradual process. While this process is not fully understood, some decent headway has been made on the topic since the days of Pasteur. Abiogenesis has most definitely not been ruled as impossible. Stating that it has been demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding in how science works, and what kind of conclusions can be drawn from a given experiment or set of experiments.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.csmoni ... w-evidence

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03 ... -conundrum

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by David Redszus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:23 pm

The range of opinions presented on this forum is both interesting and absurb.

What exactly is truth? How do we know? Why does it change so often?

Science as we currently define it, consists of a collection of evidence that has not
yet been disproved. It may or may not reflect truth.


Faith, on the other hand, does not require supportable evidence since it serves an
entirely different purpose than science or the pursuit of truth.

Faith has always served to assist and support the needs of humans when fact
or science was not available. It has done so for many thousands of years, often
quite effectively.

It seems that far too much attention has been focused on faith based on the
Christian religion and not enough consideration given to other religions, both
past and present. Each religion served a specific human need and purpose.
They had little to do with morality and civil conduct.

Those who persistently cite the Bible should understand both the Old and New
Testaments had nothing to do with god; they served entirely different purposes.
Neither should be taken literally nor seriously. Study their actual origins and
do not waste time with their contents.

The Old Testament being a collection of oral traditions of an inconsequential
minute nomadic tribe, do not reflect global humanity over the past 250,000 years.

The New Testament, was written as an operations manual for middle eastern Christian
congregations by an ambitious self promoter to enhance certain trade routes.

Neither has any relevance to conduct, morality, afterlife, or salvation than do the
works of Shakespere.

The bottom line is: believe whatever you want but do not ever attempt to impose
your beliefs on me or anyone else.

Now back on topic. What defines life? Can forms of life exist that are totally
dissimilar than those found on earth? If so, then many planets in the universe
could be capable of supporting some form of life.

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by j-c-c » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:20 pm

"Faith has always served to assist and support the needs of humans when fact
or science was not available. It has done so for many thousands of years, often
quite effectively."

The "effective" conclusion might be debatable.

But then Sants is also pretty effective in getting children to behave for a year.

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 pm

I have read that the same mentality explains the irrational belief in say, Noahs ark and the like. Prior to the enlightenment most westerners could discern that such stories were allegorical at best, then science started to challenge what is true and next thing ya know the earth is 6000 years old literally. The church saw science as a threat and it leads us to today and people still defending the indefensible. In this very thread some think Satan rules the earth.

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by j-c-c » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:27 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 pm
In this very thread some think Satan rules the earth.
And some how I'm related to him. :roll: :lol:

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by prairiehotrodder » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:33 am

life can not come from non-life.

So i guess in the end scientific proof isn't enough.

Is it the proof that you dislike (arrogance i guess) or is it the logical conclusion that that proof leads to ? (how did life start on earth)

The 2nd law that was brought up also topples evolution.

I'll stand behind the truth of the Bible untill the day i die. Creation, young earth, noahs ark and Jesus Christ.

Evolution is a fairy tale that adults use to try and make them feel ok about their love of sin.

Brian
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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by j-c-c » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:44 am

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:33 am
life can not come from non-life.

Brian
What makes you so confident and /or intelligent enough that you know this declaration of yours is 100% correct?

Enlighten me.

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by prairiehotrodder » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:03 am

its not mine. look it up.
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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by GRTfast » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:22 am

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:33 am
life can not come from non-life.

So i guess in the end scientific proof isn't enough.

Is it the proof that you dislike (arrogance i guess) or is it the logical conclusion that that proof leads to ? (how did life start on earth)

The 2nd law that was brought up also topples evolution.

I'll stand behind the truth of the Bible untill the day i die. Creation, young earth, noahs ark and Jesus Christ.

Evolution is a fairy tale that adults use to try and make them feel ok about their love of sin.

Brian
Please, in your own words, explain how the second law of thermodynamics “topples evolution”, I need a good laugh.

This is the problem. When you don’t actually understand any of these topics, your easily duped. Worse than that, you appear to be happily and willfully ignorant. What a sad existence. Yikes.

Sigh...

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Re: Questions for the atheist. (Part 1)

Post by prairiehotrodder » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:38 am

in laymans terms, things wear down and wear out. Increasing entropy.

How old do you say the universe is ?
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