Republican position on healthcare.

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1989TransAm
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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by 1989TransAm » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:04 am

This whole thread was started on fake news assumptions by chromedome. [-X

j-c-c
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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by j-c-c » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:09 am

86_regal wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:51 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:31 pm
86_regal wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:26 pm


I'm not seeing anything you've stated bear resemblance to a response to the questions I asked or the points I made.

Only healthy people should pay for and receive health care? I certainly agree that if "healthy" people pay for care, they should receive care. In the interest of applying the SAME rules to EVERYONE, ALL PEOPLE sick, healthy, small, large, tall, short, fat, rich, poor, etc. should receive health care when they pay for it.

Seems to me you're conflating health CARE and health INSURANCE coverage, they're not the same thing. Vehicle repairs or "auto care" such as changing oil, brakes and wiper blades, paid for entirely by YOU, is NOT the same as "auto insurance" which covers costs associated with auto accidents such as vehicle collision repairs and personal medical care in the event of injury, the cost of such coverage paid for by YOU to pay for the aforementioned costs, are paid by the insurance provider.

With that out of the way. Health insurance plan coverage terms are pre-defined. If an insurance company reneged on they're contractual obligations, they'd be facing a hell of a PR shitstorm which would not serve their future profits well. In fact, there are many cases in which Insurance Companies have covered high cost treatments despite there being no obligation just to prevent such bad press.

In terms of INSURANCE coverage of pre-existing conditions is a contradiction in terms. Again I ask, would it be a wise financial decision for a Home insurance company to cover the costs of homes that have already burned down? NO
I suppose theoretically an insurance company could provide coverage for virtually ANYTHING, I'm confident many wouldn't like the costs of such plans.

Sure, there's unscrupulous actors in the health insurance industry hell bent on plundering their clients to increase profits as there are in virtually all market sectors. How long will these insurance companies remain in business if they build a reputation for such conduct; not long.

Yes, health insurance is a gamble. The applicable catch 22 axiom of insurance is lamenting having to pay for it to have it when you don't need it and lamenting that you hadn't paid for it when you do need it.

As I've stated in the past in other contexts, prices are signals representing the costs and profits associated to produce a product of good, in large part due to the REAL WORLD effects of the scarcity of finite resources. There are no benefits without costs, NOTHING is free. So to answer your question (that I've already answered, rooted in the constraints of the REAL WORLD) IF you contract a disease that CAN be treated but at a LEGITIMATE cost $100K and you don't have or cannot get $100K, then YES, you are going to die. To influence our government officials through lobbying, PAC contributions, funding of special interest groups and the disparagment and mischaracterization of those in opposition to Universal Health Care to assure YOUR Health Care costs are covered at the FORCEFULLY EXTRACTED expense of everyone else NOT in need of it is no less ethically egregious and, IN PRINCIPLE, no different than the litany of corporate tax breaks, subsidies and special legal protections you justifiably bemoan.

Despite the serious ethical concerns of Socialization, the efficacy of such schemes is equally troubling.

The appeal of Socializing health care or Socialism in general, is the perceived benefit of diverting ones own individual costs (such as YOU Rebel, a person having reached retirement age, with little concern for having to fund this program yourself) onto everyone else, completely ignorant of the irrefutable law of scarcity leading many to indulgance and exploitation of those benefits for having been "insulated" from those costs INVARIABLY resulting in bankruptcy

Which I must add, doesn't sound very "Socialist" to me...
Dude, Really?

K.I.S.S. sometimes applies, and is useful in online discussions, like here.
My apologies for attempting to provide logically rooted explanations to a complex topic.

How bout this?

You say single payer, I say free markets! You say, the rich are EVIL!!! I say, that's stupid.
Because that dialogue certainly offers insight of both sides... :roll:
But I didn't say that, did I?
Maybe I should have just said liar?
Free markets are distorted nearly always by never ending/increasing wealth concentration. Why we have widely accepted laws (red lines) against monopolies. The argument is exactly how "free" the market is, and the point being, the extreme of either side often has a poor outcome.

Should I have taken a 6 paragraph circuitous argument to make my point?

86_regal
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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by 86_regal » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:51 am

j-c-c wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:09 am
86_regal wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:51 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:31 pm

Dude, Really?

K.I.S.S. sometimes applies, and is useful in online discussions, like here.
My apologies for attempting to provide logically rooted explanations to a complex topic.

How bout this?

You say single payer, I say free markets! You say, the rich are EVIL!!! I say, that's stupid.
Because that dialogue certainly offers insight of both sides... :roll:
But I didn't say that, did I?
Maybe I should have just said liar?
Free markets are distorted nearly always by never ending/increasing wealth concentration. Why we have widely accepted laws (red lines) against monopolies. The argument is exactly how "free" the market is, and the point being, the extreme of either side often has a poor outcome.

Should I have taken a 6 paragraph circuitous argument to make my point?
You have said that in other threads, so stop dodging what we all know you to believe.

I strongly urge you to turn off CNN, MSNBC, Sam Seder, David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski & Krugman and read an economics text book.

Any text book worth it’s weight in paper will tell you free markets apply OPPOSING market forces that serve to achieve the OPPOSITE of wealth concentration.

Monopolies are defined as singular entities providing a product at exorbitant prices and of low quality.

In a free market, a company or corporation or ANY ONE for that matter are consistently clearing 40-50% profit margins, others would be climbing over themselves for a piece of that market action INVARIABLY driving COSTS DOWN and QUALITY UP.

In such an environment, a monopoly CANNOT exist UNLESS they continually provide a superior product at the highest quality and lowest price than their competition RESULTING in the ELIMINATION of competition which undermines the definition of a monopoly in the first place since one CANNOT neither conclude they’re the sole provider subjugating exhorbitant costs and sub-par quality WITHOUT competition(!)

Hmmm... maybe private marker monopolies are a myth...?

The “monopolies” that exist today that produce shitty products at high prices are the those SAME entities protected by GOVERNMENT officials in their back pocket!

Wake TF up man! Those assholes in DC you claim are the answer HAVE BEEN AND ARE making things worse!

Concise enough for you?

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by j-c-c » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:17 pm

86_regal wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:51 am
j-c-c wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:09 am
86_regal wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:51 pm


My apologies for attempting to provide logically rooted explanations to a complex topic.

How bout this?

You say single payer, I say free markets! You say, the rich are EVIL!!! I say, that's stupid.
Because that dialogue certainly offers insight of both sides... :roll:
But I didn't say that, did I?
Maybe I should have just said liar?
Free markets are distorted nearly always by never ending/increasing wealth concentration. Why we have widely accepted laws (red lines) against monopolies. The argument is exactly how "free" the market is, and the point being, the extreme of either side often has a poor outcome.

Should I have taken a 6 paragraph circuitous argument to make my point?
You have said that in other threads, so stop dodging what we all know you to believe.

I strongly urge you to turn off CNN, MSNBC, Sam Seder, David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski & Krugman and read an economics text book.

Any text book worth it’s weight in paper will tell you free markets apply OPPOSING market forces that serve to achieve the OPPOSITE of wealth concentration.

Monopolies are defined as singular entities providing a product at exorbitant prices and of low quality.

In a free market, a company or corporation or ANY ONE for that matter are consistently clearing 40-50% profit margins, others would be climbing over themselves for a piece of that market action INVARIABLY driving COSTS DOWN and QUALITY UP.

In such an environment, a monopoly CANNOT exist UNLESS they continually provide a superior product at the highest quality and lowest price than their competition RESULTING in the ELIMINATION of competition which undermines the definition of a monopoly in the first place since one CANNOT neither conclude they’re the sole provider subjugating exhorbitant costs and sub-par quality WITHOUT competition(!)

Hmmm... maybe private marker monopolies are a myth...?

The “monopolies” that exist today that produce shitty products at high prices are the those SAME entities protected by GOVERNMENT officials in their back pocket!

Wake TF up man! Those assholes in DC you claim are the answer HAVE BEEN AND ARE making things worse!

Concise enough for you?
1. If I said it, quote it, otherwise its your word against mine
2. Dude, there is no such thing as a real "free" market, that is borderline anarchy
3. Again, where we draw the line makes often for winners and losers, which by increased influence on where/how those lines are drawn, wealth then concentrates, and you see increasing income inequality, and recent history supports that rather well, and the gullible often then "basks" with their bigger bread crumbs.
4. I never claimed anyone in DC is the answer, you need to step back, you are caught up in your own whirlwind it appears..

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by RevTheory » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Here's something the media is busy keeping people from hearing with their phony Trump bomber story. It's definitely an interesting approach that you'd see from a businessman's perspective rather than a career politician who's up to his ears in lobbyists.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothec ... 36107d4c3a

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:05 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:04 am
This whole thread was started on fake news assumptions by chromedome. [-X
How is that? They say one thing than another i just want that great affordable plan that trump promised.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by RevTheory » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm

You can thank one spiteful senator for that. Now President Trump has to piecemeal the damn thing. We should have more senators in a couple of weeks though.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:10 am

RevTheory wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm
You can thank one spiteful senator for that. Now President Trump has to piecemeal the damn thing. We should have more senators in a couple of weeks though.
Or the only person with balss enoiugh to vote his concoiuse, and maybe inspired by the likely fact he understood he was going to soon face his maker.

That has a way of often providing clarity of one's motivations.

Shame on your "spiteful" comment towards a War Hero while supporting a lying draft dodger.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:58 am

RevTheory wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm
You can thank one spiteful senator for that. Now President Trump has to piecemeal the damn thing. We should have more senators in a couple of weeks though.
How come the gop is now running on pre existing conditions and health care and not the fantastic tax cut.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:41 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm
You can thank one spiteful senator for that. Now President Trump has to piecemeal the damn thing. We should have more senators in a couple of weeks though.
Spiteful enough to serve his country wile bone spur led the rich little boy life.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:43 pm

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:47 pm

So back to the question, what do the Republicans want for healthcare ? You can not to easily divorce the pre existing conditions clause from the ACA with out making it unaffordable to those with PEC. Or am i not seeing it correctly.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by RevTheory » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:56 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:58 am
How come the gop is now running on pre existing conditions and health care and not the fantastic tax cut.
I don't know why I "bothar" with you but the priority has shifted now that the economy is rocking. Oh, they're talking plenty about the tax reform bill and phase two but they also have to combat the constant lies coming from the socialists regarding how the republicans want to kill everyone who isn't white. You guys are pathetic.

I'll explain this to you as well because I'm sure you don't know shit about business either: now that the economy is booming, people are finding better, higher-paying jobs and getting off of government assistance, banks are lending again and companies are coming back and expanding like crazy, you can go back in and start cutting taxes further down the trough, so to speak. First you have to create an environment for expansion and President Trump has done that.

Demonrats always try to do it in reverse but that never works because it doesn't create new businesses or jobs. It does make a great talking point to say that republicans hate poor people but it's a lie like everything else you guys say.

Damn, son, you still haven't figured out how to add to a post? Binge-posting makes you look even dumber than what you try to say in a single post.

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:56 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:58 am
How come the gop is now running on pre existing conditions and health care and not the fantastic tax cut.
I don't know why I "bothar" with you but the priority has shifted now that the economy is rocking. Oh, they're talking plenty about the tax reform bill and phase two but they also have to combat the constant lies coming from the socialists regarding how the republicans want to kill everyone who isn't white. You guys are pathetic.

I'll explain this to you as well because I'm sure you don't know shit about business either: now that the economy is booming, people are finding better, higher-paying jobs and getting off of government assistance, banks are lending again and companies are coming back and expanding like crazy, you can go back in and start cutting taxes further down the trough, so to speak. First you have to create an environment for expansion and President Trump has done that.

Demonrats always try to do it in reverse but that never works because it doesn't create new businesses or jobs. It does make a great talking point to say that republicans hate poor people but it's a lie like everything else you guys say.

Damn, son, you still haven't figured out how to add to a post? Binge-posting makes you look even dumber than what you try to say in a single post.
How does deficit spending fit in ?

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Re: Republican position on healthcare.

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:17 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:56 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:58 am
How come the gop is now running on pre existing conditions and health care and not the fantastic tax cut.
I don't know why I "bothar" with you but the priority has shifted now that the economy is rocking. Oh, they're talking plenty about the tax reform bill and phase two but they also have to combat the constant lies coming from the socialists regarding how the republicans want to kill everyone who isn't white. You guys are pathetic.

I'll explain this to you as well because I'm sure you don't know shit about business either: now that the economy is booming, people are finding better, higher-paying jobs and getting off of government assistance, banks are lending again and companies are coming back and expanding like crazy, you can go back in and start cutting taxes further down the trough, so to speak. First you have to create an environment for expansion and President Trump has done that.

Demonrats always try to do it in reverse but that never works because it doesn't create new businesses or jobs. It does make a great talking point to say that republicans hate poor people but it's a lie like everything else you guys say.

Damn, son, you still haven't figured out how to add to a post? Binge-posting makes you look even dumber than what you try to say in a single post.

1. But you didn't
2. What the heck was your point other deflection?

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