Limo NY Crash

This is an Admin / Moderator NO GO ZONE. You're on your own.

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
j-c-c
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3216
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Limo NY Crash

Post by j-c-c » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:46 pm

Wonder if this might be a factor in running the stop sign and all the deaths on board?

A reported text sent by deceased passenger:

"“The motor is making everyone deaf,” wrote Ms. McGowan, before Ms. Healey asked from where they rented the car.

Ms. McGowan responded that she wasn’t sure, but then added, “When we get to brewery we will all b deaf.”

ie, an exhaust leak, Carbon monoxide? :shock:


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/nyre ... harie.html

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4804
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by mk e » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:04 pm

I used to live just a couple miles from where it happened and drove through that intersection a couple times a day to and from work......a lot of "hills". The "hill" I lived on was about 1200 or 1500ft iirc....driving up it and timing between a couple markers was my dyno. The intersection in question is at the bottom of just such a hill and failed/ overheated brakes resulting in a truck crashing through and into the parking lot across the street is about an anual event. My guess would be the limo get lots of extra weight when it was stretched and filled with 18 people but the brakes didn't grow by anywhere near a similar amount during the process.
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

j-c-c
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3216
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by j-c-c » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:27 pm

Seemed like the pavement was also wet in the nighttime early video footage, if that was the case, one would also think Limo speed would be more conservative for the conditions.

If ABS was operational, there would be no skid marks(?), and also if overheated/failed brakes were in play?

I have never understood how increased weight capacities are safely designed into these limo extension conversions, seems like the finished look, trumps everything, from what I observe.

Brian P
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by Brian P » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:32 pm

Seems also that the limo in question failed an inspection recently, and the (sketchy) limo company had a history of violations ... and the driver wasn't licensed to operate the vehicle. https://globalnews.ca/news/4526875/new- ... nspection/

geraldtson
Member
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by geraldtson » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm

The Most Dangerous Place On Earth Is A Public Highway. I personally wouldn't do any kind of business with these rag heads must less be driven by them and always teach my children about the driving dangers of so many of this country's now foreign drivers who don't have any clue how to drive or any mechanical skill or understanding of vehicles.It used to be required that you have a mechanical understanding and some mechanical skills to operate and work on any commercial vehicle in this country or you failed the test. Not sure until the investigation is complete but sounds like some of the victims were already expressing concern about there well being. Some one should have said Stop The Vehicle And Let Us Out. Such a sad tragedy. So sad.

prairiehotrodder
Expert
Expert
Posts: 797
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 am
Location: melfort saskatchewan Canada

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by prairiehotrodder » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:58 pm

My best wishes to all the families and those hurting. This so much reminds me of the bus crash near my home that killed a bunch of young hockey players. I had to speak at my church the following Sunday after that accident. May those hurting trust in God through this rather than turn from him.
Brian
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com

exhaustgases
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:45 pm

What year vehicle was it? Did it have a CAN system?

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4804
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:03 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:45 pm
What year vehicle was it? Did it have a CAN system?
I think I read it was a 2004 explorer. There is NOTHING anywhere in schoharie county so I'm guessing the limo was out of Albany or maybe Schenectady which is close...either way much flatter roads so even fully loaded they probably never had a problem. Load it up and bring it to the "hills" though and everything changes. My guess is they will find the guy had never been out that way and was coming down the hill that I know is technically a 55mph zone at 60-65 when he saw the stop ahead sign (or missed it until he actually saw the stop sign) and even if he saw it there was probably no way to stop from that speed with that much weight in the available distance.

I had a buddy dump his boat is a ditch after he'd brought it up to my house for repair....I did warn him about going down the hill too fast and he babbled on about he'd been towing this boat since before he had a driver's license, which was true...around the lake where its perfectly flat. People don't realize just how much braking there is on a 1000+ ft decent and how much longer stopping distance are.
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

User avatar
Dave Koehler
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3715
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:19 pm
Location: Urbana, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by Dave Koehler » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:16 am

You got that right. My wife is from upper New York. Went there a couple of times for family things.
The first thing I thought was I would love to have several brake franchises every 100 miles or along with a towing service.
While I have experience towing up and sliding down those pucker maker mountains down south I found her home area a PITA.
3 miles to a grocery store requires 10 miles or more up and down and around some serious hills. Pretty lumpy country. I felt sorry for the farmers.
She has come to appreciate my flat lands. Closest thing we have to a hill is a highway overpass. Hands up, Wheeee
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."

j-c-c
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3216
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by j-c-c » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:28 am

Brian P wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:32 pm
Seems also that the limo in question failed an inspection recently, and the (sketchy) limo company had a history of violations ... and the driver wasn't licensed to operate the vehicle. https://globalnews.ca/news/4526875/new- ... nspection/
That "failed Inspection" is likely cover for the authorities.

Under strict interpretation of the rules. I feel I could fail 98%? of the commercial vehicles on the road for "safety" reasons.
As an example, a dirty windshield or a nail in a non leaking tire are ground for failure.
When is the last time anyone checked all your tires, 360 deg for a nail?

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4804
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:30 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:28 am
Brian P wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:32 pm
Seems also that the limo in question failed an inspection recently, and the (sketchy) limo company had a history of violations ... and the driver wasn't licensed to operate the vehicle. https://globalnews.ca/news/4526875/new- ... nspection/
That "failed Inspection" is likely cover for the authorities.

Under strict interpretation of the rules. I feel I could fail 98%? of the commercial vehicles on the road for "safety" reasons.
As an example, a dirty windshield or a nail in a non leaking tire are ground for failure.
When is the last time anyone checked all your tires, 360 deg for a nail?
NY state inspection is pretty straight forward. They had taken the car in and it failed and had not been reinspected since. To your point they didn't say why it failed but normally when its as simple as a bulb of wiper they just replace it and when you take it out uninspected its because the bill to fix it would be hundreds that you didn't plan t spend. But most likely there was no way to stop the thing and inspected or not would not have changed anything.
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

Brian P
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by Brian P » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:50 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:28 am
Brian P wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:32 pm
Seems also that the limo in question failed an inspection recently, and the (sketchy) limo company had a history of violations ... and the driver wasn't licensed to operate the vehicle. https://globalnews.ca/news/4526875/new- ... nspection/
That "failed Inspection" is likely cover for the authorities.

Under strict interpretation of the rules. I feel I could fail 98%? of the commercial vehicles on the road for "safety" reasons.
As an example, a dirty windshield or a nail in a non leaking tire are ground for failure.
When is the last time anyone checked all your tires, 360 deg for a nail?
But that inspection would have been done in the past and be a matter of record. It's not like they would have retroactively failed the inspection. In my part of the world ... for a commercial vehicle (which this was), there is a prominent sticker on the windshield.

At least in my part of the world - If an inspection failure is for something trivial (burned bulb, low tire pressure, etc) you fix it and show the inspector and you get your passed inspection and life goes on. If an inspection sticker is for something big and you don't fix it, you don't get your license plate renewal sticker. Cop sees you driving with an expired sticker on a commercial vehicle ... badness occurs; they are apt to pull your plates right there and it's up to you to get the vehicle towed.

At this point I don't think it has been stated WHY the inspection was failed. Maybe it was something material and relevant (tires, brakes, etc), maybe not. It is also possible that the corrective actions for the failure were not due YET (e.g. you normally get inspection done a month or two ahead of time in case there are any issues to take care of, so it is more of a "pending fail").

The statements from people in the vehicle that it was really loud, suggests that perhaps there was an exhaust system issue. That would cause a failed inspection. It could also lead to carbon monoxide poisoning. It also means that in no way should that vehicle have been in revenue service.

gmrocket
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:40 pm
Location: Grimsby Ontario

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by gmrocket » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:24 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:46 pm
Wonder if this might be a factor in running the stop sign and all the deaths on board?

A reported text sent by deceased passenger:

"“The motor is making everyone deaf,” wrote Ms. McGowan, before Ms. Healey asked from where they rented the car.

Ms. McGowan responded that she wasn’t sure, but then added, “When we get to brewery we will all b deaf.”

ie, an exhaust leak, Carbon monoxide? :shock:


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/nyre ... harie.html
more carbon tax would have fixed that problem,,,more,,like more and more tax

exhaustgases
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: Limo NY Crash

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:51 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:28 am
Brian P wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:32 pm
Seems also that the limo in question failed an inspection recently, and the (sketchy) limo company had a history of violations ... and the driver wasn't licensed to operate the vehicle. https://globalnews.ca/news/4526875/new- ... nspection/
That "failed Inspection" is likely cover for the authorities.

Under strict interpretation of the rules. I feel I could fail 98%? of the commercial vehicles on the road for "safety" reasons.
As an example, a dirty windshield or a nail in a non leaking tire are ground for failure.
When is the last time anyone checked all your tires, 360 deg for a nail?
We agree on something I guess there is hope for us. I personally know of a dump truck that was driving on a front tire with the cords showing, I hope they have changed that. I've been around the big trucks enough to know they are very dangerous even brand new, its just a thing I have about air brakes, just lose the pressure and the brakes lock up, now what would that do for slick roads in traffic at 60 mph?
Years ago while wrenching on a KW dump truck for a front wheel bearing problem, I found that the spindle was arc welded on, how many things like that are cruising down the roads, and no the boss didn't want to replace it as it was used mostly off road except for driving to a job. Commercial trucks really need more safety improvements, like maybe a cab that protects the driver.

Just a note, we sure have not heard of any more unintended acceleration problems in a long time. Pretty strange stuff that was.

So please post a photo of the crash scene!!!!!! I've read there are no photos. And the owner is an feebii guy of sorts?????

Post Reply