We are forgetting History

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j-c-c
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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:13 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:54 am
"Usually, comparisons between Donald Trump’s America and Nazi Germany come from cranks and internet trolls. But a new essay in the New York Review of Books pointing out “troubling similarities” between the 1930s and today is different: It’s written by Christopher Browning, one of America’s most eminent and well-respected historians of the Holocaust. In it, he warns that democracy here is under serious threat, in the way that German democracy was prior to Hitler’s rise — and really could topple altogether."

But I disagree where the comparisons "usually" come from. :mrgreen:

I expect most will discount the entire article, but the angle of Mitch McConnell as a main factor is new and interesting.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -historian
So not a single reply here yet addresses the article directly?

Willful blindness at its finest, again.

From the article:

"Browning’s essay covers many topics, ranging from Trump’s “America First” foreign policy — a phrase most closely associated with a group of prewar American Nazi sympathizers — to the role of Fox News as a kind of privatized state propaganda office. But the most interesting part of his argument is the comparison between Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Paul von Hindenburg, the German leader who ultimately handed power over to Hitler. Here’s how Browning summarizes the history:

Paul von Hindenburg, elected president of Germany in 1925, was endowed by the Weimar Constitution with various emergency powers to defend German democracy should it be in dire peril. Instead of defending it, Hindenburg became its gravedigger, using these powers first to destroy democratic norms and then to ally with the Nazis to replace parliamentary government with authoritarian rule. Hindenburg began using his emergency powers in 1930, appointing a sequence of chancellors who ruled by decree rather than through parliamentary majorities, which had become increasingly impossible to obtain as a result of the Great Depression and the hyperpolarization of German politics.

Because an ever-shrinking base of support for traditional conservatism made it impossible to carry out their authoritarian revision of the constitution, Hindenburg and the old right ultimately made their deal with Hitler and installed him as chancellor. Thinking that they could ultimately control Hitler while enjoying the benefits of his popular support, the conservatives were initially gratified by the fulfillment of their agenda: intensified rearmament, the outlawing of the Communist Party, the suspension first of freedom of speech, the press, and assembly and then of parliamentary government itself, a purge of the civil service, and the abolition of independent labor unions. Needless to say, the Nazis then proceeded far beyond the goals they shared with their conservative allies, who were powerless to hinder them in any significant way.

McConnell, in Browning’s eyes, is doing something similar — taking whatever actions he can to attain power, including breaking the system for judicial nominations (cough cough, Merrick Garland) and empowering a dangerous demagogue under the delusion that he can be fully controlled:

If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could. As with parliamentary gridlock in Weimar, congressional gridlock in the US has diminished respect for democratic norms, allowing McConnell to trample them even more. Nowhere is this vicious circle clearer than in the obliteration of traditional precedents concerning judicial appointments. Systematic obstruction of nominations in Obama’s first term provoked Democrats to scrap the filibuster for all but Supreme Court nominations. Then McConnell’s unprecedented blocking of the Merrick Garland nomination required him in turn to scrap the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations in order to complete the “steal” of Antonin Scalia’s seat and confirm Neil Gorsuch. The extreme politicization of the judicial nomination process is once again on display in the current Kavanaugh hearings. ...

Whatever secret reservations McConnell and other traditional Republican leaders have about Trump’s character, governing style, and possible criminality, they openly rejoice in the payoff they have received from their alliance with him and his base: huge tax cuts for the wealthy, financial and environmental deregulation, the nominations of two conservative Supreme Court justices (so far) and a host of other conservative judicial appointments, and a significant reduction in government-sponsored health care (though not yet the total abolition of Obamacare they hope for). Like Hitler’s conservative allies, McConnell and the Republicans have prided themselves on the early returns on their investment in Trump.

This is the key point that people often miss when talking about Hitler’s rise. The breakdown of German democracy started well before Hitler: Hyperpolarization led Hindenburg to strip away constraints on executive power as well as conclude that his left-wing opponents were a greater threat than fascism. The result, then, was a degradation of the everyday practice of democracy, to the point where the system was vulnerable to a Hitler-style figure.


Now, as Browning points out, “Trump is not Hitler and Trumpism is not Nazism.” The biggest and most important difference is that Hitler was an open and ideological opponent of the idea of democracy, whereas neither Trump nor the GOP wants to abolish elections.


What Browning worries about, instead, is a slow and quiet breakdown of American democracy — something more much like what you see in modern failed democracies like Turkey. Browning worries that Republicans have grown comfortable enough manipulating the rules of the democratic game to their advantage, with things like voter ID laws and gerrymandering, that they might go even further even after Trump is gone:

No matter how and when the Trump presidency ends, the specter of illiberalism will continue to haunt American politics. A highly politicized judiciary will remain, in which close Supreme Court decisions will be viewed by many as of dubious legitimacy, and future judicial appointments will be fiercely contested. The racial division, cultural conflict, and political polarization Trump has encouraged and intensified will be difficult to heal. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and uncontrolled campaign spending will continue to result in elections skewed in an unrepresentative and undemocratic direction. Growing income disparity will be extremely difficult to halt, much less reverse.

I’ve observed this kind of modern authoritarianism firsthand in Hungary. In my dispatch after visiting there, I warned of the same thing as Browning does here: The threat to the United States isn’t so much Trump alone as it is the breakdown in the practice of American democracy, and the Republican Party’s commitment to extreme tactics in pursuit of its policy goals in particular.

We are living through a period of serious threat to American democracy. And Browning’s essay, a serious piece by a serious scholar, shows that it’s not at all alarmist to say so."
Last edited by j-c-c on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:15 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:15 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:09 pm
That's why I didn't bother clicking on chromedome's post. WTF does his infatuation with Bush have to do with my post that he quoted? He clearly wasn't able to understand it. I really think he's suffered some kind of head trauma.
j-c-c has admitted to being on drugs.
1. That is a lie.
2. It is also libel, tread carefully.

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by rebelrouser » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:20 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:54 am
"Usually, comparisons between Donald Trump’s America and Nazi Germany come from cranks and internet trolls. But a new essay in the New York Review of Books pointing out “troubling similarities” between the 1930s and today is different: It’s written by Christopher Browning, one of America’s most eminent and well-respected historians of the Holocaust. In it, he warns that democracy here is under serious threat, in the way that German democracy was prior to Hitler’s rise — and really could topple altogether."

But I disagree where the comparisons "usually" come from. :mrgreen:

I expect most will discount the entire article, but the angle of Mitch McConnell as a main factor is new and interesting.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -historian
I totally agree with the article, thanks for posting

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:50 pm

Like someone mentioned all that pertains the Obum and demoncrat take over that is just like hitler. Fox news other than that one nut at around noon time that is a demomrat, is the most honest news political wise there is on tv. All the rest constantly interject their lies, I am amazed at the lack of all the constant climate change talk that use to be on everyday, and forcing the BELIEVE narrative. The trump bunch are for liberty and keeping private ownership of guns and property, the demoncrats are not, they are the take it away from you communist party. You followers can't see that?????????? :roll:

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by engineczar » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:28 pm

Just another steaming pile of crap from the left.

Pretty much every point the author makes can be applied to the previous administration. When you have a myopic mentality it's expected though.

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:45 pm

engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Just another steaming pile of crap from the left.

Pretty much every point the author makes can be applied to the previous administration. When you have a myopic mentality it's expected though.
So you feel the authors point is valid then, I'm impressed. =D>

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by engineczar » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:45 pm
engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Just another steaming pile of crap from the left.

Pretty much every point the author makes can be applied to the previous administration. When you have a myopic mentality it's expected though.
So you feel the authors point is valid then, I'm impressed. =D>
I don't. It's just leftist sycho babble

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:54 pm

engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:45 pm
engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Just another steaming pile of crap from the left.

Pretty much every point the author makes can be applied to the previous administration. When you have a myopic mentality it's expected though.
So you feel the authors point is valid then, I'm impressed. =D>
I don't. It's just leftist sycho babble
That you can't specifically refer to, and counter because:

1. You didn't read it
2. You don't understand it
3. It doesn't fit your narrative
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor

Pick one or more as needed. #-o

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:55 pm

The article is all about the Marxist demoncrat bunch. Its just that simple.
Highly politicized judiciary ? Yeah they won't let your commies take stuff from us. Obum was the jesus of the left Marxist demonrats they would have loved to have him be permanent god, isn't he going to run again? Just replace all the trump talk with obum and you may have something. Yeah a black hitler, he already had his gestapo set up, you know comey, brennon, and all the rest. Wake up.

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by gmrocket » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:20 am

RevTheory wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:32 am
I almost clicked on it and then I saw it was in Vox #-o

I wonder if these Trump-hating liberals crying about America somehow losing its democracy ever had a problem with ohbummer wiretapping the Associated Press or his weaponization of government agencies to target his political opponents.

And no, it's not "whataboutism", it's about a fabricated narrative and blatant hypocrisy.
Not only snooping on his political enemies, he was listening in on Angela Merkels cell phone.

And that's suppose to be a friend?

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by gmrocket » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:26 am

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:54 pm
engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:45 pm


So you feel the authors point is valid then, I'm impressed. =D>
I don't. It's just leftist sycho babble
That you can't specifically refer to, and counter because:

1. You didn't read it
2. You don't understand it
3. It doesn't fit your narrative
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor

Pick one or more as needed. #-o
I suggest you keep reading up on this kind of thing. Then come on here and keep doing what your doing, but do more of it and with more passion

We need you exposed as much as possible.. so the world can clearly see how people get caught up in propaganda..then spread it unknowingly

It's the red pill

Thank you sir

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by engineczar » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:30 am

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:54 pm
engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:45 pm


So you feel the authors point is valid then, I'm impressed. =D>
I don't. It's just leftist sycho babble
That you can't specifically refer to, and counter because:

1. You didn't read it
2. You don't understand it
3. It doesn't fit your narrative
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor

Pick one or more as needed. #-o
1. You didn't read it I did read it
2. You don't understand it I understand the intent the author is trying to convey
3. It doesn't fit your narrative It fits yours so it obviously must be true
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation It isn't any different than any other screeching leftist who's upset his candidate didn't win. Reductio ad Hitlerum
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what Look in the mirror Skippy
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor except that I was a member here while you were still trying to figure the difference between an oil filter and a lug wrench

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:48 pm

engineczar wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:30 am
j-c-c wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:54 pm
engineczar wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 pm


I don't. It's just leftist sycho babble
That you can't specifically refer to, and counter because:

1. You didn't read it
2. You don't understand it
3. It doesn't fit your narrative
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor

Pick one or more as needed. #-o
1. You didn't read it I did read it The first time or after I asked?
2. You don't understand it I understand the intent the author is trying to convey Share what you understand, if you are capable
3. It doesn't fit your narrative It fits yours so it obviously must be true So that is a Yes
4. You feel inadequate that you didn't discover this possible different political explanation It isn't any different than any other screeching leftist who's upset his candidate didn't win. Reductio ad Hitlerum To bad you can't make a case other then offer an overused cop out reply
5. You can't agree with someone not in your camp, no matter what Look in the mirror Skippy Tell me wise one, what would I see that you can make a case for?
6. You are a Russian bot tasked with creating divisiveness and rancor except that I was a member here while you were still trying to figure the difference between an oil filter and a lug wrench So a Russian bot claims it was a member here before before others knew the difference between an oil filter wrench and a lug wrench, and that is suppose to suggest the strength/merit of one/s position?
My standards are slightly higher.

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by j-c-c » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:51 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:55 pm
The article is all about the Marxist demoncrat bunch. Its just that simple.
Highly politicized judiciary ? Yeah they won't let your commies take stuff from us. Obum was the jesus of the left Marxist demonrats they would have loved to have him be permanent god, isn't he going to run again? Just replace all the trump talk with obum and you may have something. Yeah a black hitler, he already had his gestapo set up, you know comey, brennon, and all the rest. Wake up.
Curious, What group did you affiliate with before DT took over the Republican party?

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Re: We are forgetting History

Post by GRTfast » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:05 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:51 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:55 pm
The article is all about the Marxist demoncrat bunch. Its just that simple.
Highly politicized judiciary ? Yeah they won't let your commies take stuff from us. Obum was the jesus of the left Marxist demonrats they would have loved to have him be permanent god, isn't he going to run again? Just replace all the trump talk with obum and you may have something. Yeah a black hitler, he already had his gestapo set up, you know comey, brennon, and all the rest. Wake up.
Curious, What group did you affiliate with before DT took over the Republican party?
My guess is belonged to this one:

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/

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