Good book to read

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GRTfast
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Re: Good book to read

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:15 am

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
thats not what i said.
I apologize.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
What i meant was that the Bible tells the story of what happened to people, not condoning it. (in some cases)

Those things I brought up are literally telling people what to do, and (if you believe the book is the literal word of a god) are from god "himself".

The evil and suffering you see in the world is due to mans disobedience to God. More specifically its due to YOUR disobedience and MY disobedience.

1 - Don't have any other Gods - We have other Gods

2 - Don't make an image - We make an image

3 - Don't blaspheme - We use Gods name as a swear word

4- Honor the sabath - We don't

5 - Honor your parents - We don't do this either

6 - Murder - look around

7 - Adultery - Do you struggle with online [Blank Post] ? I do.

8 - Theft - we are all guilty

9 - Have you ever told a Lie

10 - Coveting - an old word i know, but rampant everywhere.

GRT - i know from reading your posts you consider yourself to be a man of Logic. Well what happens when you do the things listed above ? Consequences right ? Suffering and Evil.
Commandments 1-4 in your list are non-sense fantasies. 5-9 are easily discerned from a rational and empathetic consideration of the facts about reality. They all come back to well being, which is the basis for our moral framework. These ideas did not originate in the old testament either. Versions of the golden rule predate the supposed 10 commandments by centuries. Coveting (depending on how you define it) is literally what drives capitalism.

Interestingly, there is no commandment saying to not rape. Weird huh? You'd think that would be in there, along with commandments addressing racism, sexism, and owning people. Why is it that I can think of a better and more complete list. Is it possibly because that list was made up around 1300 BC by people? Gee, it's a mystery.

Also, let's assume that every human follows all those rules to a T. Are you suggesting that would end suffering? What about parasites, disease, and hunger... you know, the source of most of the suffering in the world?

Again, you seem like a nice guy, and I am not trying to be mean at all, even though I sense it comes off that way to you. Trying to get you to see all of this from my perspective is like trying to teach math to someone who can't understand what numbers are. Your indoctrination prevents you from approaching this topic rationally. I am sure you are rational, logical, and reasonable in virtually every other facet of your life.

If I remember correctly, you believe a literal interpretation of the bible. It is mind blowing to me how any human being could be that naive and gullible in this day and age, with all the information we have available to us.

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Re: Good book to read

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:11 am

Jesus said the 637 laws of moses stand and he doesn't want one word or title changed.. the promised land had to be raped pillaged and the people slaughtered so the Israelites could take it. In numerous passages the order came down kill them all and keep the virgins for your selves!!!! Then they divided the booty amongst themselves and yahawa got his take ?????? This I am told is all orchestrated by the designer of the universe.....Preist and politicians leading the way.
Oh by the way christianity is a Roman scheme,,,,render unto Cesar,,, pay your taxes and remember God picks your leaders....what a hoot.

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Re: Good book to read

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:17 am

I like the talking donkey story. Oh the talking snake is a good one he wanted to give man knowledge but the gods would have none of that....

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Re: Good book to read

Post by prairiehotrodder » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:15 am
Interestingly, there is no commandment saying to not rape. Weird huh? You'd think that would be in there, along with commandments addressing racism, sexism, and owning people. Why is it that I can think of a better and more complete list. Is it possibly because that list was made up around 1300 BC by people? Gee, it's a mystery.

Also, let's assume that every human follows all those rules to a T. Are you suggesting that would end suffering? What about parasites, disease, and hunger... you know, the source of most of the suffering in the world?
Jesus said that if you even look with lust you are guilty of adultery - So yes you are commanded not to rape.

Also the parasites, diseases and hunger are absolutely and directly due to mans sin. In the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve chose to do that which God commanded them not to do. From then on we have parasites, hunger and diseases.

Nobody has or ever will keep the 10 commandments. They provide us with a measuring stick to see our own sinfulness in God's sight. We are to compare ourselves to them and not to other people (such as hitler) because we can always find someone who makes us look good (such as hitler). When we see ourself in truth (as disobedient sinners) we turn to Christ in repentance because he loves us, forgives us and gives us everlasting life.
Its not about indoctrination as you keep saying, Its about faith and trust in Jesus Christ who has loved me and died for me and satisfied the Justice of God on my behalf because I am a lawbreaker. The Gospel is good news for me and you.
Brian
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Re: Good book to read

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:15 am

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am

Jesus said that if you even look with lust you are guilty of adultery - So yes you are commanded not to rape.
If you aren't married, and you look at a non-married woman with lust, that is adultery? I guess if you don't use the definition of adultery, that could be true. If we decide to not use the meaning of words, we can twist the facts to make anything say anything. Seems like a terrible way to explain things.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am
Also the parasites, diseases and hunger are absolutely and directly due to mans sin. In the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve chose to do that which God commanded them not to do. From then on we have parasites, hunger and diseases.
absolutely and directly? :lol:
Prove it.

appealing to a fairy tale (with no evidence that it is, or even could be true), that directly contradicts every bit of observable evidence is irrational at best, and is delusional to some extent. What a total copout. You are out of your mind with that type of BS.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am
Nobody has or ever will keep the 10 commandments. They provide us with a measuring stick to see our own sinfulness in God's sight. We are to compare ourselves to them and not to other people (such as hitler) because we can always find someone who makes us look good (such as hitler). When we see ourself in truth (as disobedient sinners) we turn to Christ in repentance because he loves us, forgives us and gives us everlasting life.
Its not about indoctrination as you keep saying, Its about faith and trust in Jesus Christ who has loved me and died for me and satisfied the Justice of God on my behalf because I am a lawbreaker. The Gospel is good news for me and you.
Brian
Faith is the excuse you give when you have no good reason to believe something.

Is there anything one can't take on faith? I'll make this short and answer for you. No. Anyone can use faith as a basis for any belief. That demonstrates (as I've said many times) that faith isn't a reliable path to truth. I care about what is likely to be true. Using faith to achieve that determination is like using a ball of silly putty as a compass. You are indoctrinated. The problem with people who are indoctrinated is, they can't see it.

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Re: Good book to read

Post by David Redszus » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:04 pm

Hitler was a moral thug.
In a listing of all time thugs, Hitler does not even make the top ten.

What is it, specifically, that you believe that Hitler was responsible for? Based on facts and not folklore.

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Re: Good book to read

Post by prairiehotrodder » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm

A thug bully's people to get what he wants. Shirer's book tells of lots of that happening. I'm just now reading of the "Rape of Austria". According to the book Hitler sure bullied the president of Austria into handing over that country.

Also i guess i got the terminology wrong, I was trying to Mimmick a post a couple before that post. Immoral thug was what i was going for. I'm not sure if the words immoral and moral even mean anything in an atheistic work view ? I think "thug" still means the same thing ?

Anyways i think i'm done with this thread. I've said my piece. Somebody else is welcome to have the last word.

Brian
Last edited by prairiehotrodder on Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Good book to read

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:20 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm
A thug bully's people to get what he wants. Shirer's book tells of lots of that happening. I'm just now reading of the "Rape of Austria". According to the book Hitler sure bullied the president of Austria into handing over that country.

Also i guess i got the terminology wrong, I was trying to Mimmick a post a couple before that post. Immoral thug was what i was going for. I'm not sure if the words immoral and moral even mean anything in an atheistic work view ? I think "thug" steal means the same thing ?

Anyways i think i'm done with this thread. I've said my piece. Somebody else is welcome to have the last word.

Brian
Religion is not necessary for morality, that concept is destructive, insulting, and flat out untrue. Each time you suggest that atheists don't have morality (or anything like that), it exemplifies the type of damage indoctrination does.

You need to watch this, Hitchens puts it so beautifully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... S9cw2pb0ok

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Re: Good book to read

Post by David Redszus » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:23 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:20 pm
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm
A thug bully's people to get what he wants. Shirer's book tells of lots of that happening. I'm just now reading of the "Rape of Austria". According to the book Hitler sure bullied the president of Austria into handing over that country.

Also i guess i got the terminology wrong, I was trying to Mimmick a post a couple before that post. Immoral thug was what i was going for. I'm not sure if the words immoral and moral even mean anything in an atheistic work view ? I think "thug" steal means the same thing ?

Anyways i think i'm done with this thread. I've said my piece. Somebody else is welcome to have the last word.

Brian
Religion is not necessary for morality, that concept is destructive, insulting, and flat out untrue. Each time you suggest that atheists don't have morality (or anything like that), it exemplifies the type of damage indoctrination does.
Agreed. Religion, over time, has proved to be very flexible and capable of being bent to suit the leaders of the time.
Religion has contributed nothing to the undefined cause of morality and its many variations. In fact, the most serious and depraved assaults on humanity were performed in the name of religion and various gods.

What social evil is worse than hypocrisy?

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Re: Good book to read

Post by j-c-c » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:48 am

I'm adding Max Boot's new release ""The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right.". to my must read list. I usually am not attracted to writings that share my beliefs, as is doesn't always offer much additional insight, but being at a complete loss to explain what has led the party I have been with my entire life astray, I am curious what a notable author shares about his similar(?) experience. This caught anyone else's attention?

https://www.salon.com/2018/10/16/max-bo ... rned-down/

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Re: Good book to read

Post by rebelrouser » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:18 am

j-c-c wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:48 am
I'm adding Max Boot's new release ""The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right.". to my must read list. I usually am not attracted to writings that share my beliefs, as is doesn't always offer much additional insight, but being at a complete loss to explain what has led the party I have been with my entire life astray, I am curious what a notable author shares about his similar(?) experience. This caught anyone else's attention?

https://www.salon.com/2018/10/16/max-bo ... rned-down/
Yes I believe as you. As a moderate Republican I believed that the least amount of government is best, when it is decided that the government needs to do something it should be done with as little waste as possible and done as well as possible, I strongly believe that unless people have a good education democracy is not possible, and that the government needs to balance its budget just like I do. I also believe that especially in an industrial type economy some sort of social safety net is desirable for the people. Social Security was designed to be a pension system paid for by workers and business. Politicians have pillaged social security and added disabled people to it. Disabled people should have a separate system. I also believe that the truth is the truth and every person should strive to determine the real truth. The current Republican part has abandoned most of its core conservative beliefs, by their actions in the last two years. I will check out the book.

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Re: Good book to read

Post by j-c-c » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:21 pm

I'm about a third of the way thru "Fire and Fury" expose , it would be best for the country if someone could state and prove at least 99% of content is purely false.

Proving any less then that, we are in sad shape as a country.

Any body read it?

Be more curious if any DT supporters have read it completely and their thoughts..

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