Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

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Kevin Johnson
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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by Kevin Johnson » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:24 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:02 am
A few good reads, relevant to the current discussion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231971/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbrett ... ebba64e8c2
Per the first, when I was performing research with human subjects in grad school I was in the first wave of students required to be certified. Part of that process is learning about some of the atrocities promulgated/committed by previous researchers and governments (including our own).

Per the second, a good university level course in critical thinking would help many people.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am

Kevin Johnson wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:12 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:30 am
...

I still don't get how you extrapolate from this, to the idea that all the science is garbage, either intentionally or by mistake. ...
:lol: You're VERY wide of the mark here. I do NOT think that all the science is garbage, either intentionally or by mistake. I actually do get very upset when it is corrupted by design or, sadly more often, ignorance or laziness. I picked a VERY specific area of empirical observation where data has been 'adjusted' and shown how it contradicts raw data. Not just any raw data, mind you, but from a vessel equipped, directed by and ostensibly adhering to the high standards of NOAA.

I specifically want original data preserved and available for subsequent analysis: not permanently adjusted and the source destroyed and/or concealed. Intentionally or not, the latter ARE hallmarks of garbage science.

Here's an article about paleontology that illustrates the back and forth movement/controversy within real science; the article holds another reference to astrophysics (see if you can find it): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 60454.html
I'll check it out, thanks for the link.

Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by gmrocket » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am
Kevin Johnson wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:12 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:30 am
...

I still don't get how you extrapolate from this, to the idea that all the science is garbage, either intentionally or by mistake. ...
:lol: You're VERY wide of the mark here. I do NOT think that all the science is garbage, either intentionally or by mistake. I actually do get very upset when it is corrupted by design or, sadly more often, ignorance or laziness. I picked a VERY specific area of empirical observation where data has been 'adjusted' and shown how it contradicts raw data. Not just any raw data, mind you, but from a vessel equipped, directed by and ostensibly adhering to the high standards of NOAA.

I specifically want original data preserved and available for subsequent analysis: not permanently adjusted and the source destroyed and/or concealed. Intentionally or not, the latter ARE hallmarks of garbage science.

Here's an article about paleontology that illustrates the back and forth movement/controversy within real science; the article holds another reference to astrophysics (see if you can find it): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 60454.html
I'll check it out, thanks for the link.

Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?
Not the majority...but if your funding comes from a source with an agenda, they know what outcome is expected. Going against the grain or questioning why , can put you on the unemployment line.

We've seen it happen many times.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:59 am

gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am
Kevin Johnson wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:12 am


:lol: You're VERY wide of the mark here. I do NOT think that all the science is garbage, either intentionally or by mistake. I actually do get very upset when it is corrupted by design or, sadly more often, ignorance or laziness. I picked a VERY specific area of empirical observation where data has been 'adjusted' and shown how it contradicts raw data. Not just any raw data, mind you, but from a vessel equipped, directed by and ostensibly adhering to the high standards of NOAA.

I specifically want original data preserved and available for subsequent analysis: not permanently adjusted and the source destroyed and/or concealed. Intentionally or not, the latter ARE hallmarks of garbage science.

Here's an article about paleontology that illustrates the back and forth movement/controversy within real science; the article holds another reference to astrophysics (see if you can find it): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 60454.html
I'll check it out, thanks for the link.

Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?
Not the majority...but if your funding comes from a source with an agenda, they know what outcome is expected. Going against the grain or questioning why , can put you on the unemployment line.

We've seen it happen many times.
How does one reliably determine what "the agenda" is? Who funds scientific endeavors without some sort of "agenda"?

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by Kevin Johnson » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:17 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am
...
Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?
Well, I will answer this "Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy," in this way...

My psycholinguistics professor, J.J. Jenkins, was one of the founders of his field and he was familiar with virtually all the publications. He commented to me that it was embarrassing when graduate students (doing scientific research in cognitive science) presented papers but only went back about ten years in the literature with their references and thus did not realize that many members in that very audience had researched the same topics. Eighty-two students received their doctorates under his guidance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jenkins

Yes, it is very easy for researchers to be lazy. Check their literature references as a start. You can be the judge. Aside: It is hard to cite primary historical data when it no longer exists, no?

I was present during many discussions about which applicant professors would be hired by departments and quite often intrigue was involved. The graduate students would attend presentations by the candidates. Heads of Departments would call their friends in other universities where the person was applying to compare notes. In a research university you had better believe that they were expected to bring in grant dollars. If they did not understand how to do that they would be gone in short order. You will not receive funding if you are highly critical of existing researchers' work and did not build upon it, i.e. the very body of people who will be peer reviewing your grant proposal.

I have to get back to my work.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by gmrocket » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:59 am
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am


I'll check it out, thanks for the link.

Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?
Not the majority...but if your funding comes from a source with an agenda, they know what outcome is expected. Going against the grain or questioning why , can put you on the unemployment line.

We've seen it happen many times.
How does one reliably determine what "the agenda" is? Who funds scientific endeavors without some sort of "agenda"?
Before, it seems funding was very secretive. These days it's wide out in the open, mostly far left environmental groups that boast of funneling money to causes that they want slanted.

People tend to think if an environmental group is funding something, it's a good thing because they are looking out for the environment.

But when you dig a litter deeper, sometimes that's not the case. That sort of thing is alive and well here in Canada..there are no restrictions on foreign funded groups doing those dirty deeds.

As an example, Saudi money flows into environmental groups who are doing a good job of shutting down our oil and gas industry by painting it as bad scientifically and environmentally.

The main goal is to keep relying on Saudi and other foreign oil..not our own

Two birds with one stone...foreign funded groups are protesting here right now against a pipeline that would give access to our own oil, while Saudi and Venezuelian tankers sail right by them into our harbors.

Crazy but true..those groups use scientific research to prove how bad oil is and we will all die if it continues...even if it was 100% true, why not use our own oil to kill ourselves?
Last edited by gmrocket on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 am

gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:59 am
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am


Not the majority...but if your funding comes from a source with an agenda, they know what outcome is expected. Going against the grain or questioning why , can put you on the unemployment line.

We've seen it happen many times.
How does one reliably determine what "the agenda" is? Who funds scientific endeavors without some sort of "agenda"?
Before, it seems funding was very secretive. These days it's wide out in the open, mostly far left environmental groups that boast of funneling money to causes that they want slanted.

People tend to think if an environmental group is funding something, it's a good thing because they are looking out for the environment.

But when you dig a litter deeper, sometimes that's not the case. That sort of thing is alive and well here in Canada..there are no restrictions on foreign funded groups doing those dirty deeds.

As an example, Saudi money flows into environmental groups who are doing a good job of shutting down our oil and gas industry by painting it as bad scientifically and environmentally.

The main goal is to keep relying on Saudi and other foreign oil..not our own

Two birds with one stone
Do you think this is happening with the majority of funded scientific endeavors? Are the majority of scientific pursuits really a front for clandestine and nefarious efforts? If you think they are, do you have any evidence as such (not isolated cases, but the majority)? If not, then why is this argument being used as a justification for denying the consensus on a topic like climate change?
Last edited by GRTfast on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by gmrocket » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:31 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 am
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:59 am


How does one reliably determine what "the agenda" is? Who funds scientific endeavors without some sort of "agenda"?
Before, it seems funding was very secretive. These days it's wide out in the open, mostly far left environmental groups that boast of funneling money to causes that they want slanted.

People tend to think if an environmental group is funding something, it's a good thing because they are looking out for the environment.

But when you dig a litter deeper, sometimes that's not the case. That sort of thing is alive and well here in Canada..there are no restrictions on foreign funded groups doing those dirty deeds.

As an example, Saudi money flows into environmental groups who are doing a good job of shutting down our oil and gas industry by painting it as bad scientifically and environmentally.

The main goal is to keep relying on Saudi and other foreign oil..not our own

Two birds with one stone
Do you think this is happening with the majority of funded scientific endeavors? Are the majority of scientific pursuits really a front for clandestine and nefarious efforts? If you think they are, do you have any evidence as such? If not, then why is this argument being used as a justification for denying the consensus on a topic like climate change?
I wasn't finished..my last paragraph proves it's not about using fossil fuels.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:37 am

gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:31 am
I wasn't finished..my last paragraph proves it's not about using fossil fuels.
You've cited a few specific cases, I'll take your word for those being true for the sake of discussion (but I will remain skeptical until presented with sufficient evidence). In order to bolster the position that the vast majority of the scientific community related to climate science is in league, perpetrating a huge conspiracy, I'm going to need some extraordinary evidence. How, on the one hand, can you be so skeptical of the incredibly well documented evidence, methods, conclusions, and predictive power of the current science on the topic, while so easily accepting what amounts to a giant conspiracy with little supporting evidence? I just don't get it.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by GRTfast » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:38 am

Kevin Johnson wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:17 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:40 am
...
Direct question: Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy, deceitful folk who work to lie and conspire for the purpose of obtaining grant money?
Well, I will answer this "Do you think the majority of scientists are lazy," in this way...

My psycholinguistics professor, J.J. Jenkins, was one of the founders of his field and he was familiar with virtually all the publications. He commented to me that it was embarrassing when graduate students (doing scientific research in cognitive science) presented papers but only went back about ten years in the literature with their references and thus did not realize that many members in that very audience had researched the same topics. Eighty-two students received their doctorates under his guidance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jenkins

Yes, it is very easy for researchers to be lazy. Check their literature references as a start. You can be the judge. Aside: It is hard to cite primary historical data when it no longer exists, no?

I was present during many discussions about which applicant professors would be hired by departments and quite often intrigue was involved. The graduate students would attend presentations by the candidates. Heads of Departments would call their friends in other universities where the person was applying to compare notes. In a research university you had better believe that they were expected to bring in grant dollars. If they did not understand how to do that they would be gone in short order. You will not receive funding if you are highly critical of existing researchers' work and did not build upon it, i.e. the very body of people who will be peer reviewing your grant proposal.

I have to get back to my work.
Thanks for your input. I will consider it moving forward.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by gmrocket » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:39 am

Incase anyone hasn't noticed...the enviro natzis are now say it's ether too late to reverse the burning up process, or if we don't go hardcore on restrictions right now ..it's a lost cause

It can't be fixed or reversed..

So my suggestion is Canada should start first just so we can be the virtuous ones...we will all commit suicide tomorrow, our economy will cease to exist..that will stop Canada's 1% contribution to global warming

I'm sure when China sees this, they will follow suite 🙄
Last edited by gmrocket on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by gmrocket » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:41 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:37 am
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:31 am
I wasn't finished..my last paragraph proves it's not about using fossil fuels.
You've cited a few specific cases, I'll take your word for those being true for the sake of discussion (but I will remain skeptical until presented with sufficient evidence). In order to bolster the position that the vast majority of the scientific community related to climate science is in league, perpetrating a huge conspiracy, I'm going to need some extraordinary evidence. How, on the one hand, can you be so skeptical of the incredibly well documented evidence, methods, conclusions, and predictive power of the current science on the topic, while so easily accepting what amounts to a giant conspiracy with little supporting evidence? I just don't get it.
I never said "all" or it's a conspiracy

Just stating facts that are happening on the ground right now.

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Re: Trump administration reports temps will rise 7 degrees by 2100

Post by exhaustgases » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkF91n0NhMg

Engineering we still have an nice high pressure area moving our rain and snow else where. And it really helps the hurricanes as well. I noticed when we had good weather years ago the south east had bad weather. Like when the space shuttle went down.

Its all being done so the demoncrats can scream we need to get rid of this and that. The brain washing is and will be full throttle.

This person may have something here.
Its pretty interesting. More evil boys and their evil toys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMFxKnbCtI

The president says to control the weather with a satellite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7o-uDbr0jI

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