Faith is not a reliable path to truth

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j-c-c
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:19 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm
FuelieNova wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:42 pm
I always laugh at these kind of threads... I am a believer.
My thoughts always are... we will see who's right when you die :shock: until then the debate will go on forever.
Tg
Fine with me, except, tell me, what are your earthy thoughts if a lot of what your see here as "non believers" show up in the same place you are striving for, will you be disappointed or happy?
Crickets?


Questions getting too hard?

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:27 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:19 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm
FuelieNova wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:42 pm
I always laugh at these kind of threads... I am a believer.
My thoughts always are... we will see who's right when you die :shock: until then the debate will go on forever.
Tg
Fine with me, except, tell me, what are your earthy thoughts if a lot of what your see here as "non believers" show up in the same place you are striving for, will you be disappointed or happy?
Crickets?


Questions getting too hard?
Simple, any true Christian would rejoice... The whole purpose of witnessing is so that all are saved. If what Jesus says and did is true and history says it is then is it really not worth a year of the 70 you will live to find out?

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by exhaustgases » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:29 pm

In the nice book it says don't give pearls to swine. I guess they just keep oinking, like the commies here do. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Small minds at work in the Marxist demoncrat religion.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 pm

GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:15 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:07 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:55 pm




Your only 2000 years behind the writers of the New Testament and over 3000 years behind the writers of the Old Testament, The scientific relevance of the scripture is probably one of the most interesting things it presents, a scripture in Hebrews got me interested in the Quantum Sciences. but being a "self proclaimed Christian" you probably already know that.
Look folks, a backhanded insult about how I wasn’t a good Christian when i was a believer. Nice! Jesus would be proud of you (if he weren’t fictional). :lol:

Seriously, If you truly believe that the Bible is scientifically accurate, we should stop this conversation.

Remember what i said about believers twisting things to fit their beliefs? Yeah. Thanks for pointing out a example of that.

Anyone with a basic understanding of what science has uncovered about the earth, the sun, biology, and the cosmos only has to read genesis to figure out that the Bible is dead wrong when it comes to the explanation of what these phenomenon are, and the order they developed in. If it can’t get mundane and simple details like that right, it is laughable to suggest that it’s somehow accurate across the board from a scientific perspective.

Here’s an index of some of the scientific errors in the Bible. I hope you have some time, there’s a lot to cover.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_ ... fic_errors
Please demonstrate?
Start here. It’s a multi part series.

https://youtu.be/oSDXgT2QAf0

Here are a ton more scientific and historical errors:

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:41 pm

GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:27 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:19 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm


Fine with me, except, tell me, what are your earthy thoughts if a lot of what your see here as "non believers" show up in the same place you are striving for, will you be disappointed or happy?
Crickets?


Questions getting too hard?
Simple, any true Christian would rejoice... The whole purpose of witnessing is so that all are saved. If what Jesus says and did is true and history says it is then is it really not worth a year of the 70 you will live to find out?
Great, thanks for clearing that up, when that get together takes place, beers will be on the "non-believers" =D>

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by exhaustgases » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:42 pm

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
Oh yeah if a communist demoncrat writes or says something it is the truth, we can depend on that they are the all knowing.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:15 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:07 pm


Look folks, a backhanded insult about how I wasn’t a good Christian when i was a believer. Nice! Jesus would be proud of you (if he weren’t fictional). :lol:

Seriously, If you truly believe that the Bible is scientifically accurate, we should stop this conversation.

Remember what i said about believers twisting things to fit their beliefs? Yeah. Thanks for pointing out a example of that.

Anyone with a basic understanding of what science has uncovered about the earth, the sun, biology, and the cosmos only has to read genesis to figure out that the Bible is dead wrong when it comes to the explanation of what these phenomenon are, and the order they developed in. If it can’t get mundane and simple details like that right, it is laughable to suggest that it’s somehow accurate across the board from a scientific perspective.

Here’s an index of some of the scientific errors in the Bible. I hope you have some time, there’s a lot to cover.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_ ... fic_errors
Please demonstrate?
Start here. It’s a multi part series.

https://youtu.be/oSDXgT2QAf0

Here are a ton more scientific and historical errors:

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
At some point you should really study theses your self... your last link... The bible defines what it calls legs and hands on an insect!
Another from your link opens with this "The idea that the ant is an individual animal that does everything herself simply isn't true from a biological standpoint."
It is inserting something that the scripture does not teach so that their theory holds water.

If you ever decide to spend as much time studying what the bible says as you do studying reasons not to believe you will find out that all of your questions have been answered in the book your questioning.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:01 am

GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:15 pm

Please demonstrate?
Start here. It’s a multi part series.

https://youtu.be/oSDXgT2QAf0

Here are a ton more scientific and historical errors:

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
At some point you should really study theses your self... your last link... The bible defines what it calls legs and hands on an insect!
Another from your link opens with this "The idea that the ant is an individual animal that does everything herself simply isn't true from a biological standpoint."
It is inserting something that the scripture does not teach so that their theory holds water.

If you ever decide to spend as much time studying what the bible says as you do studying reasons not to believe you will find out that all of your questions have been answered in the book your questioning.
I have no doubt that you can provide some type of "explanation" for each contradiction, historical error, and scientific inaccuracy that I identify. That doesn't mean your explanations are correct.

Tell me, how can there be light, and a separation between day and night before the sun existed? Plants existed before the sun too? GTF out of here with that BS. You are now free to make yourself look foolish and gullible by regurgitating some apologetic garbage explanation that twists and reinterprets the biblical account in an attempt to make it jive with what we now know about the order in which these events actually occurred.
Have at it, the floor is yours.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:01 am
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 pm


Start here. It’s a multi part series.

https://youtu.be/oSDXgT2QAf0

Here are a ton more scientific and historical errors:

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
At some point you should really study theses your self... your last link... The bible defines what it calls legs and hands on an insect!
Another from your link opens with this "The idea that the ant is an individual animal that does everything herself simply isn't true from a biological standpoint."
It is inserting something that the scripture does not teach so that their theory holds water.

If you ever decide to spend as much time studying what the bible says as you do studying reasons not to believe you will find out that all of your questions have been answered in the book your questioning.
I have no doubt that you can provide some type of "explanation" for each contradiction, historical error, and scientific inaccuracy that I identify. That doesn't mean your explanations are correct.

Tell me, how can there be light, and a separation between day and night before the sun existed? Plants existed before the sun too? GTF out of here with that BS. You are now free to make yourself look foolish and gullible by regurgitating some apologetic garbage explanation that twists and reinterprets the biblical account in an attempt to make it jive with what we now know about the order in which these events actually occurred.
Have at it, the floor is yours.
As said before no answer will be good enough for a person that is not looking for answers.
I am sure you know that in Rev when the earth is restored their is no sun or time needed anymore... is it possible that the one that can create everything may be able to do things that your little created brain can't deal with?

Have you ever germinated a seed? do you put it in direct light or in darkness for the best results? How long does it take to sprout and how long will it live without light?

In Gen 1 God is speaking things into existence, so did it all pop into place when He said it? Gen 2 4 and 5 sounds to me like it was set in motion but had not sprouted, in Gen 2 dealing with the garden only and detailing what was done with Adam, God clearly created things in front of Adam so Adam could witness God as the creator, probably why satan tempted Eve and not Adam.

I don't know I wasn't there, can you tell me the exact sequence of the Big Bang or The Cambrian Explosion even though they both violate everything we know about science? No it requires the same faith as someone that believes "In The Beginning"

It seems your anti faith thread is built entirely on faith but I will await the evidence you have.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm


blah blah blah nonsense...

can you tell me the exact sequence of the Big Bang or The Cambrian Explosion even though they both violate everything we know about science?
I already provided an exhaustive documentation of the big bang theory and the evidence from which it is constructed. For convenience, here it is again:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

Why don't you explain to me how it, and the Cambrian explosion "violate everything we know about science" (oh man, :lol:) We can then address those explanations one by one.
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
No it requires the same faith as someone that believes "In The Beginning"
No it doesn't require faith to accept scientific theories. All the ACTUAL scientific evidence we have (not anecdotal, not personal, not unsubstatiated) supports these theories. They are the best and most solidly backed explanations we have for our observations.

Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed evolution, and specifically observed speciation in nature? Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed the accelerated expansion of the observable universe? (please say yes)
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
It seems your anti faith thread is built entirely on faith but I will await the evidence you have.
This is a false and purposefully dishonest assertion. f&*k you very much for deliberately mischaracterizing my position.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by prairiehotrodder » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:19 pm

Don't get angry GRT, both I and Gary tried to answer your questions and you just out of hand discarded our answers and replaced them with stuff that you heard somewhere else and is total guesses.
We aren't going to come up with something absolutely new that you can't learn and read about somewhere else. I'm just an average Christian not a scientist and you place on me the burden of deep scientific answers. We both did the best we could to give you the best answers we know. As i stated before i could throw back at you all the same goofy remarks that you threw at me. What good would that do ? You didn't come up with your info either. You read it or heard it from somebody.
I'm long done with this thread but hope that it has some value to somebody.
Brian
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:53 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:19 pm
Don't get angry GRT, both I and Gary tried to answer your questions and you just out of hand discarded our answers and replaced them with stuff that you heard somewhere else and is total guesses.
I reject your answers because are either opinions, or unsubstantiated claims. They aren't verifiable. It's that simple.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:19 pm
We aren't going to come up with something absolutely new that you can't learn and read about somewhere else. I'm just an average Christian not a scientist and you place on me the burden of deep scientific answers.
You place that burden on yourself when you claim to know the answers.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:19 pm
We both did the best we could to give you the best answers we know.
I know. Those answers fall short of being substantiated or verifiable in any way. Your methodology can be used to support any claim about anything because your methods are rooted almost exclusively in logical fallacies. This makes your methodology useless in the pursuit of what is actually true. It is useful for convincing yourself you are right when you don't have actual evidence to support your beliefs.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:19 pm
You didn't come up with your info either. You read it or heard it from somebody[/b].
That is demonstrably incorrect. I provided evidence for evolution and the big bang, and I provided an exhaustive guide of biblical inaccuracies both historic and scientific.

Facts are facts independent of who says them

You think rejecting all that is valid because I didn't personally gather it? :lol:

If that is the requirement we are going with, you must realize that it also disqualifies anything the bible has to say. #-o

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:00 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm


blah blah blah nonsense...

can you tell me the exact sequence of the Big Bang or The Cambrian Explosion even though they both violate everything we know about science?
I already provided an exhaustive documentation of the big bang theory and the evidence from which it is constructed. For convenience, here it is again:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

Why don't you explain to me how it, and the Cambrian explosion "violate everything we know about science" (oh man, :lol:) We can then address those explanations one by one.
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
No it requires the same faith as someone that believes "In The Beginning"
No it doesn't require faith to accept scientific theories. All the ACTUAL scientific evidence we have (not anecdotal, not personal, not unsubstatiated) supports these theories. They are the best and most solidly backed explanations we have for our observations.

Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed evolution, and specifically observed speciation in nature? Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed the accelerated expansion of the observable universe? (please say yes)
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
It seems your anti faith thread is built entirely on faith but I will await the evidence you have.
This is a false and purposefully dishonest assertion. f&*k you very much for deliberately mischaracterizing my position.
You have more faith than I do.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:12 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:00 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm


blah blah blah nonsense...

can you tell me the exact sequence of the Big Bang or The Cambrian Explosion even though they both violate everything we know about science?
I already provided an exhaustive documentation of the big bang theory and the evidence from which it is constructed. For convenience, here it is again:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

Why don't you explain to me how it, and the Cambrian explosion "violate everything we know about science" (oh man, :lol:) We can then address those explanations one by one.
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
No it requires the same faith as someone that believes "In The Beginning"
No it doesn't require faith to accept scientific theories. All the ACTUAL scientific evidence we have (not anecdotal, not personal, not unsubstatiated) supports these theories. They are the best and most solidly backed explanations we have for our observations.

Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed evolution, and specifically observed speciation in nature? Do you dispute that it is a fact that we have directly observed the accelerated expansion of the observable universe? (please say yes)
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm
It seems your anti faith thread is built entirely on faith but I will await the evidence you have.
This is a false and purposefully dishonest assertion. f&*k you very much for deliberately mischaracterizing my position.
You have more faith than I do.
That is demonstrably false, but you are free to say it, and it’s probable that you actually believe it. Cheers.

Also, thanks for confirming that you don’t know what a scientific theory is, and don’t even understand what science is.

When someone tries to argue that it takes faith to believe a theory, it is a direct and compete admission of ignorance on the topic. Accepting scientific findings that are based upon empirical evidence is literally the opposite of accepting something on faith.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by exhaustgases » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:29 pm

Wide and spacious is the gate leading to destruction, narrow and cramped the path leading to life.
Also the evil ones are made for the evil day. So all anti godders take heed. The quotes are from memory path maybe gate too I forget.

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