Faith is not a reliable path to truth

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GRTfast
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:52 am

GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:56 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:41 pm

My claim is it is all incorrect, if you can prove his claims then I will stand corrected!

It is all covered here... http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=51168
What are his positive claims from the video that you would like me to prove? Please cite them with the video timestamp.

You can save your time if you’d like. There aren’t any positive claims in the video. There is no burden of proof on anything he says. If you think there is a burden of proof on something he says in the video, and you’d like to continue this lesson, identify it.
I will wait for your evidence and see if I can learn something new from your great lesson... :)
I’ll accept your lame bow out. I didn’t expect you to actually identify the specific claims you think are incorrect. I only asked to make a point. Thanks for helping me make it.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:29 am

GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:37 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:31 pm
GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:28 pm

You used the video as evidence so you "believe" what they say to be true when in fact it is not... but if you get a caller that can't answer your questions then it makes it look like you have a valid argument.

I ask again... Faith in what?
In the video, Matt makes an argument that is logically correct, and reasonable. There is no circular reasoning or logical fallacies employed in his argument, and he makes no positive claim, therefore he has no burden of proof. It has nothing to do with the caller.

Again, please quote the video and tell me what positive claim is made.
If his arguments are factually incorrect then are they still reasonable? and if the caller can not correct him on his facts then it appears the callers position has no basis... It's just a straw man set up to push a "belief" system.
You should call Matt and set his dumass straight.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by n2xlr8n » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:38 am

RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:07 pm
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:05 pm
Be careful man, Those are strong words.

The reason i sometimes engage in these things is because even though the hardened atheists are basically unreasonable, there is often a fewer guys just reading along who may genuinely be looking for truth and answers. Its him that God may get ahold of and his heart is changed. The Bible says he moves from Death to Life!
Brian
Those are wise words, Brian.
+1
GRTfast wrote: I am a former Christian. I have read most of the Bible (many parts over and over). That is actually part of what lead to me to become an atheist. It is poorly written, contradictory, and full of horrific immorality. As I said before, how anyone who can dress and feed themselves finds it to be the divinely inspired work of the creator of the universe is beyond baffling.
I'm going to pray for you- not because I'm better, holy, sanctified or otherwise- but because I've been blessed. The evidence that Jesus Christ (and His Holy Spirit) lives in me... is contained within my previously miserable life chasing "worldly knowledge" (University Physics). Will I share it? Not on a forum, but I'll share the most recent "coincidence" :lol: :

My daughter comes home every day from college at 1430, takes a nap, and waits until I get home at 1530 to start studying- she's done this every day. June 28th, a lightning bolt struck our house directly through her wall, causing her bed (and our house) to burn. She would have been burned badly, at least, but...It just so happens that her older sister convinced her to attend a women's bible conference the night before. To some, that would be coincidental- to myself, it happens frequently. Like statistically aberrant.

When I first started studying the Bible, I felt like many others- confused by timelines, immorality, etc. I bought a book called "The Dispensational Truth" by Clarence Larkin (former engineer), mainly for the maps and detailed analytical approach he took in writing the book...nevermind that he is a Scofield scholar- I was after the pictures and perspective. Maybe you'll read it too, one day. Maybe not. But I'll pray that you seek Him and He answers your questions.

He has mine, over and over....and I'm one of the blind idiots.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:02 am

n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:38 am
RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:07 pm
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:05 pm
Be careful man, Those are strong words.

The reason i sometimes engage in these things is because even though the hardened atheists are basically unreasonable, there is often a fewer guys just reading along who may genuinely be looking for truth and answers. Its him that God may get ahold of and his heart is changed. The Bible says he moves from Death to Life!
Brian
Those are wise words, Brian.
+1
GRTfast wrote: I am a former Christian. I have read most of the Bible (many parts over and over). That is actually part of what lead to me to become an atheist. It is poorly written, contradictory, and full of horrific immorality. As I said before, how anyone who can dress and feed themselves finds it to be the divinely inspired work of the creator of the universe is beyond baffling.
I'm going to pray for you- not because I'm better, holy, sanctified or otherwise- but because I've been blessed. The evidence that Jesus Christ (and His Holy Spirit) lives in me... is contained within my previously miserable life chasing "worldly knowledge" (University Physics). Will I share it? Not on a forum, but I'll share the most recent "coincidence" :lol: :

My daughter comes home every day from college at 1430, takes a nap, and waits until I get home at 1530 to start studying- she's done this every day. June 28th, a lightning bolt struck our house directly through her wall, causing her bed (and our house) to burn. She would have been burned badly, at least, but...It just so happens that her older sister convinced her to attend a women's bible conference the night before. To some, that would be coincidental- to myself, it happens frequently. Like statistically aberrant.

When I first started studying the Bible, I felt like many others- confused by timelines, immorality, etc. I bought a book called "The Dispensational Truth" by Clarence Larkin (former engineer), mainly for the maps and detailed analytical approach he took in writing the book...nevermind that he is a Scofield scholar- I was after the pictures and perspective. Maybe you'll read it too, one day. Maybe not. But I'll pray that you seek Him and He answers your questions.

He has mine, over and over....and I'm one of the blind idiots.
How you choose to spend your time is up to you.
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Firedome8
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:27 pm

n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:38 am
RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:07 pm
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:05 pm
Be careful man, Those are strong words.

The reason i sometimes engage in these things is because even though the hardened atheists are basically unreasonable, there is often a fewer guys just reading along who may genuinely be looking for truth and answers. Its him that God may get ahold of and his heart is changed. The Bible says he moves from Death to Life!
Brian
Those are wise words, Brian.
+1
GRTfast wrote: I am a former Christian. I have read most of the Bible (many parts over and over). That is actually part of what lead to me to become an atheist. It is poorly written, contradictory, and full of horrific immorality. As I said before, how anyone who can dress and feed themselves finds it to be the divinely inspired work of the creator of the universe is beyond baffling.
I'm going to pray for you- not because I'm better, holy, sanctified or otherwise- but because I've been blessed. The evidence that Jesus Christ (and His Holy Spirit) lives in me... is contained within my previously miserable life chasing "worldly knowledge" (University Physics). Will I share it? Not on a forum, but I'll share the most recent "coincidence" :lol: :

My daughter comes home every day from college at 1430, takes a nap, and waits until I get home at 1530 to start studying- she's done this every day. June 28th, a lightning bolt struck our house directly through her wall, causing her bed (and our house) to burn. She would have been burned badly, at least, but...It just so happens that her older sister convinced her to attend a women's bible conference the night before. To some, that would be coincidental- to myself, it happens frequently. Like statistically aberrant.

When I first started studying the Bible, I felt like many others- confused by timelines, immorality, etc. I bought a book called "The Dispensational Truth" by Clarence Larkin (former engineer), mainly for the maps and detailed analytical approach he took in writing the book...nevermind that he is a Scofield scholar- I was after the pictures and perspective. Maybe you'll read it too, one day. Maybe not. But I'll pray that you seek Him and He answers your questions.

He has mine, over and over....and I'm one of the blind idiots.
Is your god the one in the bible????

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:54 pm

GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:28 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:21 pm

Thats what the Bible teaches! "I don't know" is an actual answer, thankfully most answers are there if your willing to look. Unfortunately most people are not looking for answers, they are looking for people to agree with them so they can sit around and bitch about life instead of taking the info available to change things.
And yet there is not one single example of "I don't know" from the Bible shared on this entire thread.
Why?
That is not meant as slam dunk, more of some should practice what they preach.
Is it wrong to study something well enough to be able to answer question about a subject?
No I don't see why it would. The problem arises when people decide they individually have the "divine truth" that should apply to everyone, and rather then explain and/or supply proof others would like to review to make up their own mind, when they can't they should just say, "I don't know, but I believe it"
Cased closed. No harm no foul.
I find it interesting that if a believer can't answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong and if they can answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong.

That is not my position, as just because someone can't explain or prove something does not out of hand mean it it is wrong. However no one should insist I or anyone else share their beliefs that they are correct.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:07 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:52 am
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:56 pm


What are his positive claims from the video that you would like me to prove? Please cite them with the video timestamp.

You can save your time if you’d like. There aren’t any positive claims in the video. There is no burden of proof on anything he says. If you think there is a burden of proof on something he says in the video, and you’d like to continue this lesson, identify it.
I will wait for your evidence and see if I can learn something new from your great lesson... :)
I’ll accept your lame bow out. I didn’t expect you to actually identify the specific claims you think are incorrect. I only asked to make a point. Thanks for helping me make it.
=D> [-o<
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:09 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:54 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:28 pm


And yet there is not one single example of "I don't know" from the Bible shared on this entire thread.
Why?
That is not meant as slam dunk, more of some should practice what they preach.
Is it wrong to study something well enough to be able to answer question about a subject?
No I don't see why it would. The problem arises when people decide they individually have the "divine truth" that should apply to everyone, and rather then explain and/or supply proof others would like to review to make up their own mind, when they can't they should just say, "I don't know, but I believe it"
Cased closed. No harm no foul.
I find it interesting that if a believer can't answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong and if they can answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong.

That is not my position, as just because someone can't explain or prove something does not out of hand mean it it is wrong. However no one should insist I or anyone else share their beliefs that they are correct.
What if they incorrect?
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:13 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:29 am
GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:37 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:31 pm


In the video, Matt makes an argument that is logically correct, and reasonable. There is no circular reasoning or logical fallacies employed in his argument, and he makes no positive claim, therefore he has no burden of proof. It has nothing to do with the caller.

Again, please quote the video and tell me what positive claim is made.
If his arguments are factually incorrect then are they still reasonable? and if the caller can not correct him on his facts then it appears the callers position has no basis... It's just a straw man set up to push a "belief" system.
You should call Matt and set his dumass straight.
Done that in the past, it doesn't do any good if they are not actually looking for answers. If you want to talk historical/factual evidence they don't take your call.

The show looks more convincing when the caller can't answer the questions.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm

GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:09 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:54 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 pm


Is it wrong to study something well enough to be able to answer question about a subject?
No I don't see why it would. The problem arises when people decide they individually have the "divine truth" that should apply to everyone, and rather then explain and/or supply proof others would like to review to make up their own mind, when they can't they should just say, "I don't know, but I believe it"
Cased closed. No harm no foul.
I find it interesting that if a believer can't answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong and if they can answer the questions it's proof that the bible is wrong.

That is not my position, as just because someone can't explain or prove something does not out of hand mean it it is wrong. However no one should insist I or anyone else share their beliefs that they are correct.
What if they incorrect?
I support your right to decide for yourself what is correct or incorrect, and expect I and others should have the same option.
As many believe in the end, it will all get worked out, not much sense fighting and belittling each other here in the meantime, unless that is what one desires, I guess, but not me.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:09 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:54 pm

No I don't see why it would. The problem arises when people decide they individually have the "divine truth" that should apply to everyone, and rather then explain and/or supply proof others would like to review to make up their own mind, when they can't they should just say, "I don't know, but I believe it"
Cased closed. No harm no foul.

That is not my position, as just because someone can't explain or prove something does not out of hand mean it it is wrong. However no one should insist I or anyone else share their beliefs that they are correct.
What if they incorrect?
I support your right to decide for yourself what is correct or incorrect, and expect I and others should have the same option.
As many believe in the end, it will all get worked out, not much sense fighting and belittling each other here in the meantime, unless that is what one desires, I guess, but not me.
So if someone believes they can fly you just let them jump off of a building? I value life more than that so if someone believes something that is harmful to them it seems the caring thing to do is point out the flaw in their thinking.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by RevTheory » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:18 pm

You can't beat 'em over the head with the Bible, though. At some point, as Jesus Himself said, you have to knock the dust off your sandals and move on.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:39 pm

GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:09 pm

What if they incorrect?
I support your right to decide for yourself what is correct or incorrect, and expect I and others should have the same option.
As many believe in the end, it will all get worked out, not much sense fighting and belittling each other here in the meantime, unless that is what one desires, I guess, but not me.
So if someone believes they can fly you just let them jump off of a building? I value life more than that so if someone believes something that is harmful to them it seems the caring thing to do is point out the flaw in their thinking.
"pointing out" and letting them "decide for themselves" are two different things.

This forum is an excellent example of "pointing out" is seldom ever warmly received, and actually often immediately disparaged without consideration, if you don't mind me pointing that out. :D

Regardless, IMO your goal is commendable if you accept your view maybe also incorrect.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by FuelieNova » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:42 pm

I always laugh at these kind of threads... I am a believer.
My thoughts always are... we will see who's right when you die :shock: until then the debate will go on forever.
Tg

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm

FuelieNova wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:42 pm
I always laugh at these kind of threads... I am a believer.
My thoughts always are... we will see who's right when you die :shock: until then the debate will go on forever.
Tg
Fine with me, except, tell me, what are your earthy thoughts if a lot of what your see here as "non believers" show up in the same place you are striving for, will you be disappointed or happy?

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