Faith is not a reliable path to truth

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GRTfast
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:58 pm

lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:52 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm
lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:18 pm


you mean the made up scare tactic crap from the liberals? thats just as real as whatever religion you practice, made up BS. now if you want to speak of facts, like the earth has gone thru many hot and cold cycles, then lets talk, but the media liberal inspired crap from the likes of al gore, and some of the other nimrods on this forum, is made up hysteria. as far as god being proven daily by science, you have apparently fallen of your chair and hit your head, go seek help.
Climate change is not the topic of this thread, it’s assgas’s attempt to derail it. That being said, I’ll grant you the fact that politicians on both sides mischaracterize the science for their own benefit. You are mistaken if you think that it has not been clearly demonstrated to a high degree of certainty that humans are the majority cause for the current (last 50+ years) radically accelerate rate of change. Not recognizing this fact is head in the sand thinking. I’d prefer to have this discussion in another thread if you’d like to present you case for claiming that all the science is made up.
not worth wasting our breath, because i will tell you i disagree with you, and much like religion you wont change my mind.
I would believe in a god if there were good evidence to support the claim that one (or more) exists.

With religion, I am with you. I don’t believe because their isn’t evidence to warrant belief.

Regarding the climate, there is sufficient evidence to be reasonably certain that we are having an effect.

The two topics are polar opposites. One is faith based, one is science. Equating them is (almost) as ridiculous as EG’s claim that science proves god exists.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by lefty o » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:58 pm
lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:52 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm


Climate change is not the topic of this thread, it’s assgas’s attempt to derail it. That being said, I’ll grant you the fact that politicians on both sides mischaracterize the science for their own benefit. You are mistaken if you think that it has not been clearly demonstrated to a high degree of certainty that humans are the majority cause for the current (last 50+ years) radically accelerate rate of change. Not recognizing this fact is head in the sand thinking. I’d prefer to have this discussion in another thread if you’d like to present you case for claiming that all the science is made up.
not worth wasting our breath, because i will tell you i disagree with you, and much like religion you wont change my mind.
I would believe in a god if there were good evidence to support the claim that one (or more) exists.

With religion, I am with you. I don’t believe because their isn’t evidence to warrant belief.

Regarding the climate, there is sufficient evidence to be reasonably certain that we are having an effect.

The two topics are polar opposites. One is faith based, one is science. Equating them is (almost) as ridiculous as EG’s claim that science proves god exists.
actually, equating them is perfect as they go hand in hand with made up crap to sway the weak minded, and scare them into to doing what their masters wish.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:05 pm

lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:58 pm
lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:52 pm


not worth wasting our breath, because i will tell you i disagree with you, and much like religion you wont change my mind.
I would believe in a god if there were good evidence to support the claim that one (or more) exists.

With religion, I am with you. I don’t believe because their isn’t evidence to warrant belief.

Regarding the climate, there is sufficient evidence to be reasonably certain that we are having an effect.

The two topics are polar opposites. One is faith based, one is science. Equating them is (almost) as ridiculous as EG’s claim that science proves god exists.
actually, equating them is perfect as they go hand in hand with made up crap to sway the weak minded, and scare them into to doing what their masters wish.
You’re wrong, but I’m willing to let it be for the sake of the thread.

lefty o
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by lefty o » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:19 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:05 pm
lefty o wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:58 pm


I would believe in a god if there were good evidence to support the claim that one (or more) exists.

With religion, I am with you. I don’t believe because their isn’t evidence to warrant belief.

Regarding the climate, there is sufficient evidence to be reasonably certain that we are having an effect.

The two topics are polar opposites. One is faith based, one is science. Equating them is (almost) as ridiculous as EG’s claim that science proves god exists.
actually, equating them is perfect as they go hand in hand with made up crap to sway the weak minded, and scare them into to doing what their masters wish.
You’re wrong, but I’m willing to let it be for the sake of the thread.
pfff lol

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 pm

Ha ha ha and saying this thread has been derailed and not on topic. Just proves how religious you really are, and what god you believe in.
Religion has many forms, and faith is what helps support them. It just so happens your religion and faith is in your pseudoscience gods with all their soros and his buddies financed global agenda of climate change. They have done a darn good brain washing job as you are proof. Do you say prayers to the great one of climate change Alli Gore?

So marxy leftys here who is financing all that precious science that is settled and there is no talking about it allowed, and all non believers should be jailed???

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by 1989TransAm » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:43 pm

Climate in change in leftist circles is indeed a religion. :D

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by lefty o » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:53 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 pm


So marxy leftys here who is financing all that precious science that is settled and there is no talking about it allowed, and all non believers should be jailed???
would you care to rewrite that into something that others can understand. #-o

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:36 am

1989TransAm wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:43 pm
Climate in change in leftist circles is indeed a religion. :D
I see you and assgas agree. I can not say due to ignorance but you guys seem sure. In contrast to religion science when proven wrong is still science. And if you can not see the difference you are probably religious. In science the latest information is tested and re tested to find flaws in the understanding. Religious dogma is rigid and its individual cults have different story's and gods and you can not test it.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by geraldtson » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:03 am

GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 am
There is a show I watch on YouTube sometimes called “The Atheist Experience”. Like me, the host is a former southern baptist. I think this clip sums up how/why I became an atheist, and how/why religion is harmful and offensive.

A guy calls in from a local church concerned about the show and the effect it has on people. The hosts ask him some direct and fair questions, and he dances around the answers. Then the host lays out the truth and it is the most succinct and powerful version I’ve heard. Watch it. Comment or don’t. Just leaving it here as food for thought.

Grtfast,for many years ive been calling The United States " The United States Of The Offended". Everybody's blasting off at the mouth declaring about how offended they are about something,usually something little someone has just said. I'm not offended because you stated religion is harmful and offensive to you. BUT HOW THE HELL CAN RELIGION BE HARMFUL AND OFFENSIVE TO YOU? You like to many others in this country have TO MANY RIGHTS.To many hardworking over taxed people in this country don't care doodly squat about you beeing offended. And you never see us running around whining and proclaiming to be offended about something. We have to much work to do to waste time on such horse sh#t.
Atheist or not don't see how christian religion is harmful.You're taught from a baby to be good to others,love others,give to others,respect thy mother and father be forgiving and dont sin and if you do you can be fogiven.Christians are the most giving people on earth,charity, time,house rebuilding for catastrophe, new home building for the poor. Feeding the poor here and abroad. GIVING THERE TIME to do all this and more to help people in need all over the world and you're offended by it??
I did watch clip. NOTHING of substance just people wanting to disagree or argue over things for the sake of disagreeing. No doers here just talkers.
Wow using the BIBLE as a guide to raise our babies and families and love one another is harmful and offensive to you? Sounds like you may be prejudice against anyone who's not atheist??

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:44 am

geraldtson wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:03 am


Grtfast,for many years ive been calling The United States " The United States Of The Offended". Everybody's blasting off at the mouth declaring about how offended they are about something,usually something little someone has just said. I'm not offended because you stated religion is harmful and offensive to you. BUT HOW THE HELL CAN RELIGION BE HARMFUL AND OFFENSIVE TO YOU? You like to many others in this country have TO MANY RIGHTS.To many hardworking over taxed people in this country don't care doodly squat about you beeing offended. And you never see us running around whining and proclaiming to be offended about something. We have to much work to do to waste time on such horse sh#t.
Atheist or not don't see how christian religion is harmful.You're taught from a baby to be good to others,love others,give to others,respect thy mother and father be forgiving and dont sin and if you do you can be fogiven.Christians are the most giving people on earth,charity, time,house rebuilding for catastrophe, new home building for the poor. Feeding the poor here and abroad. GIVING THERE TIME to do all this and more to help people in need all over the world and you're offended by it??
I did watch clip. NOTHING of substance just people wanting to disagree or argue over things for the sake of disagreeing. No doers here just talkers.
Wow using the BIBLE as a guide to raise our babies and families and love one another is harmful and offensive to you? Sounds like you may be prejudice against anyone who's not atheist??
Do you support slavery? The Bible endorses it. Saying that you use a book that endorses slavery as a guide to raise your children is offensive. Don’t try and give me a lecture on context or how the New Testament uphends those old laws, because it doesn’t, and there is no context in which the endorsement of humans owning humans, or being permitted to beat them as long as they don’t die within a few days is remotely acceptable. That is just one example, there are many many more.

I’d question the morality of anyone not offended by the immorality endorses in the Bible and other religious books. Religion is harmful because it endorses immoral bahavior. Most modern Christian choose to outright ignore or explain away the abhorrent parts of the Bible, but they are still in there, and supposedly (by your belief system) the word of a perfect god. Disgusting.

What morals do Christians use to determine which parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore? They use the morals that society has developed naturally. Religious books aren’t the source of morality. Made up gods (all gods) are not the source of morality.

Also, what are you doing in this thread? Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Stop acting like your replies on a forum aren’t the same exact thing as what is going on during that show.

I’m not pre-judging anyone. Most Christians are good people. Most people are good people. I’m saying it’s irrational to use such a horrifically immoral book as a guide for living. There is good in the Bible, but there is also some of the most horrible immorality I’ve ever observed in there too, and you have no good reason to believe it’s inspired by a god, or that a god exists at all.

If you think I’m wrong, tell me what you believe and why.
Last edited by GRTfast on Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:45 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 pm
Ha ha ha and saying this thread has been derailed and not on topic. Just proves how religious you really are, and what god you believe in.
Religion has many forms, and faith is what helps support them. It just so happens your religion and faith is in your pseudoscience gods with all their soros and his buddies financed global agenda of climate change. They have done a darn good brain washing job as you are proof. Do you say prayers to the great one of climate change Alli Gore?

So marxy leftys here who is financing all that precious science that is settled and there is no talking about it allowed, and all non believers should be jailed???
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by geraldtson » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:18 am

Wow religion is offensive to you? That means this Sunday morning when family's are going into Church to receive guidance and advise in life to love everybody and raise there beautiful children to simply be good people your offended by THAT. With all the violence and hate in this country where would it be without the teachings and guidance of the Bible from churches. You stated your an Atheist,one of my life long friends is one as well and we've played guitar together for many many years and he's never been offended by me being a christian and nor i him for the opposing. It's people like you that are always spouting off ,complaining and getting OFFENDED by someone else's beliefs that stir up hate and prejudice in others. SO SICK of hearing people complain of what offends them. You may want to make a visit on the VIEW so you would have opportunity to help pump horse sh#t into the heads of so many of it's viewers which helps to further mess people up all up in there heads.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 am

geraldtson wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:18 am
Wow religion is offensive to you? That means this Sunday morning when family's are going into Church to receive guidance and advise in life to love everybody and raise there beautiful children to simply be good people your offended by THAT. With all the violence and hate in this country where would it be without the teachings and guidance of the Bible from churches. You stated your an Atheist,one of my life long friends is one as well and we've played guitar together for many many years and he's never been offended by me being a christian and nor i him for the opposing. It's people like you that are always spouting off ,complaining and getting OFFENDED by someone else's beliefs that stir up hate and prejudice in others. SO SICK of hearing people complain of what offends them. You may want to make a visit on the VIEW so you would have opportunity to help pump horse sh#t into the heads of so many of it's viewers which helps to further mess people up all up in there heads.
:lol:

An obviously offended guy complaining about the offense I take to immoral superstitious beliefs based on no good reason.

To be clear, I’m not offended by people being good people.never claimed I was. You’re confused about what the Bible says, or you outright ignore most of it.

I have plenty of Christian friends. Most of them are actually, including all the guys in the band I was in for 10 years. I find the real teachings of their religion offensive. Thankfully they only tend to follow the teachings their morality agrees with. We get along just fine, and deep discussions have revealed the unreasonable nature of their positions. They acknowledge it, but continue believing none the less, based on faith. That ties to the thread title. Faith is not a reliable path to truth.

When a family disowns their child for being an atheist, is that moral? Do they not do it based upon their sincerely held religious belief? I know plenty of families divided just like that. The Bible endorses slavery, murder, and rape. It’s vile and contradictory, and certainly not the divinely inspired word of a god that supposedly created this universe.

How do you reconcile the horrific immorality in the book that you believe is the perfect word of the god you worship? I submit that you are more moral than that god (as described in the Bible) would be if it existed.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:59 pm

Your male and female slaves are to be from the nations around you; you may purchase male and female slaves.


Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as you would Christ.


But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Sunday school skips these parts of Christian belief.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:40 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:43 am
GRTfast wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:31 am


Why do you believe that?
Because many would be jerks seven days a week instead of six?

Seriously, many people are incapable of self control, they need to be lead, they react to fear, cherish a pay off it they follow certain rules, they abhor uncertainty, require an explanation for everything, simplifies complexity on an individual basis,, they seek/need to be surrounded by the like minded, like to know there is hope in the end to correct all their wrong doings if they repent.

Religion meets all these needs, not saying this doesn't foster other undesirable behavior, like the Crusades, etc

Based upon that fact that atheists are statistically far less likely to commit crime or cause harm to others, I would submit that people are perfectly capable of behaving reasonably without fear of a deity.
I have nothing to confirm or refute your statistical comment, and to be precise, I only commented on "many" people, which could easily define those belief based world wide, I also did not intend to imply that people were not capable of self/control proper behavior, but that many choose their own solution, and in this context, its religion, again as in "many", and then head that direction.

It might be just a case of non believers statistically do not need this additional support, and believers do, of those trying to take/find the high road?

However any discussion of which position has the upper moral ground and or performance, usually halts all rational discussion, as each side deepens their trenches. I avoid it, and in life make by strongest points IMO, by example. :D

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