Faith is not a reliable path to truth

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GRTfast
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:56 am

joe 90 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:48 am
Faith is just a means of inventing the truth when you don't know how to find it.
It can't be anything other than wrong.
Agree. What is so baffling to me is people who apply sound reasoning to most aspects of their lives, then suspend it for the concept of a deity. It comes down to being honest with one's self about what they know, don't know, and can't know.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:08 am

GRTfast wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:56 am
joe 90 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:48 am
Faith is just a means of inventing the truth when you don't know how to find it.
It can't be anything other than wrong.
Agree. What is so baffling to me is people who apply sound reasoning to most aspects of their lives, then suspend it for the concept of a deity. It comes down to being honest with one's self about what they know, don't know, and can't know.
Believers have the whole of thair world view out of focus because of the underlying delusions about how the world works ,,,,hence cheto worship.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:29 am

GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:58 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:51 pm
GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:48 pm

It is!

I have done that on three other threads here in the past cpl of years, the info is out there if your willing to look.

You can PM me and I will give you my # or PM me yours and we can discuss this at length but trying to do it on a forum thread just turns into a he said she said.
Anything that we can say in PM’s can be said here. If you want to bow out of backing the claims you’ve made, I understand.

If not, please quote the video and identify the claim(s) Matt makes that are positive and/or factually incorrect.
Not PM, one on one phone conversation!

Lean what the bible actually says and then you will know why the video is wrong. The definition of Faith is not biblicly accurate to start with.
I have read the bible and studied it for a long time,,Do you think Yahawah picks world leaders ? Do you think the world is less than 10000 years old ? Start with that.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:33 am

GRTfast wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 am
geraldtson wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:18 am
Wow religion is offensive to you? That means this Sunday morning when family's are going into Church to receive guidance and advise in life to love everybody and raise there beautiful children to simply be good people your offended by THAT. With all the violence and hate in this country where would it be without the teachings and guidance of the Bible from churches. You stated your an Atheist,one of my life long friends is one as well and we've played guitar together for many many years and he's never been offended by me being a christian and nor i him for the opposing. It's people like you that are always spouting off ,complaining and getting OFFENDED by someone else's beliefs that stir up hate and prejudice in others. SO SICK of hearing people complain of what offends them. You may want to make a visit on the VIEW so you would have opportunity to help pump horse sh#t into the heads of so many of it's viewers which helps to further mess people up all up in there heads.
:lol:

An obviously offended guy complaining about the offense I take to immoral superstitious beliefs based on no good reason.

To be clear, I’m not offended by people being good people.never claimed I was. You’re confused about what the Bible says, or you outright ignore most of it.

I have plenty of Christian friends. Most of them are actually, including all the guys in the band I was in for 10 years. I find the real teachings of their religion offensive. Thankfully they only tend to follow the teachings their morality agrees with. We get along just fine, and deep discussions have revealed the unreasonable nature of their positions. They acknowledge it, but continue believing none the less, based on faith. That ties to the thread title. Faith is not a reliable path to truth.

When a family disowns their child for being an atheist, is that moral? Do they not do it based upon their sincerely held religious belief? I know plenty of families divided just like that. The Bible endorses slavery, murder, and rape. It’s vile and contradictory, and certainly not the divinely inspired word of a god that supposedly created this universe.

How do you reconcile the horrific immorality in the book that you believe is the perfect word of the god you worship? I submit that you are more moral than that god (as described in the Bible) would be if it existed.
In the bible you and your neighbors would stone your child to death for unbelief. You know the moral hi ground.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by David Redszus » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:36 pm

The Bible is written like it is for a reason. It is only contradictory if you feed something into it that is not there.
There are many parts to several bibles. We do not know who wrote certain parts and why some works were included and some works were left out (in various versions).

The old testament was not written from scratch; it reflects a thousand years of folk lore and legend. Those oral tales were written down over time. But various authors differed in their understanding and intent. That is where the contradictions come from. Various parts of the old testament were written for various purposes; scholars (not religious types) have studied the content in an attempt to understand its purpose and intent, not to support its sacred nature (it has none).

The new testament is an entirely different story, or collection of stories. Again, their true authorship is not known with certain provable exceptions. Again, we must ask, who wrote it and what was their purpose and intent?

If you have available facts, use them to form your opinions.
If you do not have facts, use faith until a set of facts comes along.

Which it will...eventually.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:12 pm

joe 90 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:16 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:27 am


Me give it? I'm not the one complaining about it, a complainer needs to give the example.

You're digging your hole deeper and deeper.



There's only one truth but lots of different faiths.
Say what? How is that digging a hole???? That comment is way out of context of what was being talked about.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by j-c-c » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:38 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:56 am
joe 90 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:48 am
Faith is just a means of inventing the truth when you don't know how to find it.
It can't be anything other than wrong.
Agree. What is so baffling to me is people who apply sound reasoning to most aspects of their lives, then suspend it for the concept of a deity. It comes down to being honest with one's self about what they know, don't know, and can't know.
You know what the converse of the Dunning Kruger effect is, correct?
( that is a back handed compliment :D )

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:29 am
GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:58 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:51 pm

Anything that we can say in PM’s can be said here. If you want to bow out of backing the claims you’ve made, I understand.

If not, please quote the video and identify the claim(s) Matt makes that are positive and/or factually incorrect.
Not PM, one on one phone conversation!

Lean what the bible actually says and then you will know why the video is wrong. The definition of Faith is not biblicly accurate to start with.
I have read the bible and studied it for a long time,,Do you think Yahawah picks world leaders ? Do you think the world is less than 10000 years old ? Start with that.
Yes, No and Maybe... We already been through this before.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:37 am

GARY C wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:37 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:31 pm
In the video, Matt makes an argument that is logically correct, and reasonable. There is no circular reasoning or logical fallacies employed in his argument, and he makes no positive claim, therefore he has no burden of proof. It has nothing to do with the caller. Again, please quote the video and tell me what positive claim is made.
If his arguments are factually incorrect then are they still reasonable? and if the caller can not correct him on his facts then it appears the callers position has no basis... It's just a straw man set up to push a "belief" system.
Still waiting for you to show how Matt's argument is factually incorrect, and is a straw man.

Just so we are clear:

Straw man argument: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by RevTheory » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 am

I heard this many years ago and it rings true now, and is also why I typically stay out of these threads: "For those who choose to believe, no further amount of evidence is needed. For those who choose not to believe, no amount of evidence will ever be enough."

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GRTfast » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:14 am

RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 am
I heard this many years ago and it rings true now, and is also why I typically stay out of these threads: "For those who choose to believe, no further amount of evidence is needed. For those who choose not to believe, no amount of evidence will ever be enough."
A couple of things on that:

1. I don't think belief is truly a choice.
2. I don't think there is anything that qualifies as actual evidence for the existence of any god.

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by Firedome8 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:21 am

RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 am
I heard this many years ago and it rings true now, and is also why I typically stay out of these threads: "For those who choose to believe, no further amount of evidence is needed. For those who choose not to believe, no amount of evidence will ever be enough."
So you got nothing!!!! Who the f did not know that . I guess you do not want crushed with logic. Choice in this case is actually a product of your early years and the brainwashing that you were subject to. And now it pervades your worldview and you can't shake it off....

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by GARY C » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:08 am

GRTfast wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:14 am
RevTheory wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 am
I heard this many years ago and it rings true now, and is also why I typically stay out of these threads: "For those who choose to believe, no further amount of evidence is needed. For those who choose not to believe, no amount of evidence will ever be enough."
A couple of things on that:

1. I don't think belief is truly a choice.
2. I don't think there is anything that qualifies as actual evidence for the existence of any god.
You just proved Rev's post correct, you already have a preconceived notion and no amount of answers will make a difference.

BTW the bible is the key to the evidence your looking for and one of the places the video is wrong.

As I said, PM me if you really want to talk about this in depth.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

sanfordandson
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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by sanfordandson » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:21 am

The existence of any god was previously proven untrue in a very long thread years ago.

Someone must have hit the repeat button...

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Re: Faith is not a reliable path to truth

Post by prairiehotrodder » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:31 am

I'll probably regret posting in this thread but i've been following along so i'll throw in some ideas.

As to the title of the thread, I can agree with that. Faith in its self doesn't mean much. Its the object of your faith that matters.

The path to truth is Jesus Christ. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the father but by me"

It takes humility to put your faith is Jesus Christ because God opposes to proud but gives grace to the humble. As i get older i've learned that having faith in Jesus Christ is no longer as difficult as it was when i first became a Christian. Its because he has proven himself over and over and over to me. If someone has always been trustworthy its no longer difficult to trust them. Its easy.

For you Atheists out there, the key is to humble your self. But you always resist and think you don't need a savior. The bible says that unless you repent you will all likewise perish. You hate God and you don't even know why. God has nothing but love and mercy waiting for you if you will turn to him in humility and repentance. You have undervalued your own soul. God says it has great value. Don't destroy it. There will indeed be a day of judgement but for now God is patiently waiting for you.
Brian
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