Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

This is an Admin / Moderator NO GO ZONE. You're on your own.

Moderator: Team

j-c-c
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by j-c-c » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 am

gmrocket wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:30 am
You lefties on here must wet your pants over him,,, and as your righteous lefty, he is facing groppimg stories now of a young woman..he's a feminist and reminds us everyday he is
So he is not yet in DT's league, a real novice?

lefty o
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:50 am

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by lefty o » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:22 am

Splitter wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:05 am
lefty o wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:23 am
Splitter wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:18 am
If Canada were to increase defence spending, I suspect the US would also increase theirs proportionally, and so would many other countries, to maintain the balance of power. It’s a waste of tax dollars. Try to imagine a scenario where Trump would voluntarily cut defence spending and thereby give up power and influence on the international stage, not going to happen IMO.
canada could quadruple its defense spending, and the US wouldnt have to even think about spending more to keep the power balance as it is.
If that were true, then we could halve our defence spending instead of increasing it, with no consequence to the US. But Trump is making it sound as though the US is being forced into defending the world because nobody else is stepping up. More likely, Trump wants a bigger military for reasons of vanity, and it will require more government spending, and he is trying to sell it to the public by using Canada as a scapegoat.
we sure pay for it all! as for canada's military, like i said you could quadruple your budget for it, and we wouldnt notice it.

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by mk e » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:57 am

What I find funny here is the claim Rump makes that 5he US is paying the way for other NATO member and it's not fair, we should not be paying for their security....fair enough, but let's say all NATO members magically got to 2%....does that mean the US can reduce our spending? If that's the plan then I'm all for it but I'm quite certain not and the US spending will remain at current rates.

There has been zero talk about how the US would change or redistute anything based on what other NATO countries do......so then why do we even care what others do if we are going to do what we feel is best for us either way?
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

gmrocket
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2311
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:40 pm
Location: Grimsby Ontario

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by gmrocket » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:17 am

j-c-c wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 am
gmrocket wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:30 am
You lefties on here must wet your pants over him,,, and as your righteous lefty, he is facing groppimg stories now of a young woman..he's a feminist and reminds us everyday he is
So he is not yet in DT's league, a real novice?
Oh he's much worse than trump, cuz he's a lying lefty feminist. He says it over and over yet gropes them.

I've never heard trump say he's a feminist

1989TransAm
Guru
Guru
Posts: 9177
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: Cypress, California

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by 1989TransAm » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm

The purpose of NATO was to stop the encroachment of the Soviet Union. It was agreed to by the members that they would put in 2% of there GNP to pay for the costs. Some members are actually keeping up. Some members are not such as Germany. We have been paying too big a burden all of these years and have been taken advantage of. Trade is another area that we have been taken advantage of. President Trump is calling these countries out and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Finally a President doing what he said he would do. :D :mrgreen: =D>

GLHS60
Pro
Pro
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:55 am
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by GLHS60 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Germany has taken a new approach in stopping the encroachment of Russia.

They are buying natural gas from them.

Should stop them in their tracks !!

Thanks
Randy
Sherwood Park
Alberta,Canada

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by mk e » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:30 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm
The purpose of NATO was to stop the encroachment of the Soviet Union. It was agreed to by the members that they would put in 2% of there GNP to pay for the costs. Some members are actually keeping up. Some members are not such as Germany. We have been paying too big a burden all of these years and have been taken advantage of. Trade is another area that we have been taken advantage of. President Trump is calling these countries out and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Finally a President doing what he said he would do. :D :mrgreen: =D>
Great...so of Europe is safe bacause the US is sending to protect them how much do you figure the US will be able to cut defense spending if Europe starts paying their fair share?
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

Turbo231
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by Turbo231 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Back in the good old days if a country didn't keep up their defenses they were eventually gobbled up by a neighbor. Who in the USA would want to gobble up Canada? :lol:

1989TransAm
Guru
Guru
Posts: 9177
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: Cypress, California

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by 1989TransAm » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:03 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:30 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm
The purpose of NATO was to stop the encroachment of the Soviet Union. It was agreed to by the members that they would put in 2% of there GNP to pay for the costs. Some members are actually keeping up. Some members are not such as Germany. We have been paying too big a burden all of these years and have been taken advantage of. Trade is another area that we have been taken advantage of. President Trump is calling these countries out and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Finally a President doing what he said he would do. :D :mrgreen: =D>
Great...so of Europe is safe bacause the US is sending to protect them how much do you figure the US will be able to cut defense spending if Europe starts paying their fair share?
No cuts. China is a bigger threat than Russia. Then we still do not know exactly what North Korea will do.

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by mk e » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:58 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:03 pm

No cuts. China is a bigger threat than Russia. Then we still do not know exactly what North Korea will do.
Fine, then move the troops and if Europe is concerned they can up their forces. If they are not concerned why is it our concern?

We can't tell other countries how to spend their money, but we can decide how to spend ours.

In reality though neither China nor NK are military threats to the US any more than Russia is.....we are an ocean away. Focus on missile defense and forget about them. We don't need 3/4 of the shit our military has, at least not for defense.
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

j-c-c
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by j-c-c » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:50 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:58 pm
In reality though neither China nor NK are military threats to the US any more than Russia is.....we are an ocean away. Focus on missile defense and forget about them. We don't need 3/4 of the shit our military has, at least not for defense.
Isolationist?

History has a proven record of how painful that concept becomes over time.

Deterrence often requires having more stuff then there is immediate need for, in peace time, it is not an exact science dealing with expansionist dictators.

An Ocean away is in today's times not what it used to be, ie an all out internet/satellite attack would bring us to our knees promptly, and that would be in most circles, an act of war.

Thinking anybody is not a credible threat, is a weakness an enemy usually sees as a gift ti be exploited.

I would not have expected this position from you that have stated here, and I think I have made it clear, I disagree strongly.

mk e
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Elverson, PA

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by mk e » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:13 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:50 pm


Isolationist?

......
I would not have expected this position from you that have stated here, and I think I have made it clear, I disagree strongly.
No, not isolationist. My point is we can't and shouldn't tell Europe how to defend themselves. They know Russia is a political threat, not a genuine military threat and don't feel they need to treat as anything but a political threat. If Germany alone spent 2% they would be out spending Russia.

I'm fine trusting their opions but there is no reason I the world for the US to provide addition forces. Train together a couple times a years maybe once in Europe once in the US and call it good. If they want a larger force they are free to build one, they haven't needed us in decades.

They don't need us so this doesn't bother me. Tearing up trade deals or abandoning friends to dictators does.
Mark
Mechanical Engineer

lefty o
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:50 am

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by lefty o » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:31 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:13 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:50 pm


Isolationist?

......
I would not have expected this position from you that have stated here, and I think I have made it clear, I disagree strongly.
No, not isolationist. My point is we can't and shouldn't tell Europe how to defend themselves. They know Russia is a political threat, not a genuine military threat and don't feel they need to treat as anything but a political threat. If Germany alone spent 2% they would be out spending Russia.

I'm fine trusting their opions but there is no reason I the world for the US to provide addition forces. Train together a couple times a years maybe once in Europe once in the US and call it good. If they want a larger force they are free to build one, they haven't needed us in decades.

They don't need us so this doesn't bother me. Tearing up trade deals or abandoning friends to dictators does.
you obviously are without a clue. who the heck do you think has been the deterrent in europe since 1945, it sure the hell hasnt been any of the european countries. no, we footed the bill and kept troops there, while the others stood back and didnt bother. as seen clearly by this discussion, we are still footing the bill!

Splitter
Pro
Pro
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 11:45 pm
Location: Manitoba

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by Splitter » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:57 am
There has been zero talk about how the US would change or redistute anything based on what other NATO countries do......so then why do we even care what others do if we are going to do what we feel is best for us either way?
Exactly. I do believe that if a commitment has been made, then it should be met, but I don’t see how it makes any difference to anyone else.

Splitter
Pro
Pro
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 11:45 pm
Location: Manitoba

Re: Canada will not double its defence budget despite calls from Trump: Trudeau

Post by Splitter » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:26 pm

Turbo231 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:02 pm
Back in the good old days if a country didn't keep up their defenses they were eventually gobbled up by a neighbor. Who in the USA would want to gobble up Canada? :lol:
Lol...that’s exactly why the CP railway was rushed to completion in the 1880s. The Canadian government needed the means to get settlers to western Canada, so it wouldn’t get annexed by the US. Still ended up with a few hundred thousand Americans settling in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Post Reply