Summit in Singapore

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j-c-c
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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by j-c-c » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:40 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:04 pm
It was "easy", because it is only so far a grand albeit historic photo op, combined with showmanship, nothing is really agreed to yet by Congress, in writing or actually done.
Your response is a bit dismissive toward an event the rest of the world deems to be quite significant. Everyone knows the process will be long and hard. It took 65 years of bumblefuuck stumbling to get here; the longest journey begins with the first step.
Isn't a bit strange that in 65 years, no other president has made any progress at all. Obviously, the North Koreans must be a nation of deplorables who follow Trump.

Congress? This Congress? This Congress couldn't pass a fart. Meaningful work will be done in Congress after the mid-term election when real Republicans are in full control of both Houses.

I was being gentle.
"strange" is in the eye of the bewildered.
"real" Republicans have left the mob mentality, or been castrated, or had their lips sewn shut, not speaking for myself.
Last edited by j-c-c on Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by j-c-c » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:42 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:23 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:53 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:41 pm
Typical response from the Debbie Downers on this board. They are going to be negative against President Trump no matter what. All they are doing is degrading there responses on this board and their credibility is going down further each day.
You're making it sound like they still have some "left" :lol:
J-C-C is running on empty. That guy is a nut. The others still have a little left in the tank. Make that very little. :D
Thanks, nice to know who the company is I don't keep. =D>

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by gmrocket » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:44 pm

Nobel on the way,, I heard they were asking for obama to return his.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by RevTheory » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:48 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:44 pm
Nobel on the way,, I heard they were asking for obama to return his.
Ohbummer sure as hell ought to return it. Who gets a peace prize for a world-wide apology tour anyways? It's no wonder everyone walked all over him.

I sure hope our Trump trolls are able to stomach all the crow they're going to have to eat.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by 1989TransAm » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:11 pm

" Who gets a peace prize for a world-wide apology tour anyways?" Is that not the damn truth. :D

No chance that President Trump gets the Nobel Peace prize. You have to be a lefty or a dictator such as Kim.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:34 pm

Kim and Trump can share it.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by j-c-c » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:35 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:48 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:44 pm
Nobel on the way,, I heard they were asking for obama to return his.
Ohbummer sure as hell ought to return it. Who gets a peace prize for a world-wide apology tour anyways? It's no wonder everyone walked all over him.

I sure hope our Trump trolls are able to stomach all the crow they're going to have to eat.
You have a rather altruistic set of goals i see.

Always been impressed by those so adverse to anyone offering an apology, speaks volumes frankly.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by gmrocket » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:56 pm

How did that apology tour workout for ya?

Hahahah hahahah. FAIL

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by 1989TransAm » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:39 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:56 pm
How did that apology tour workout for ya?

Hahahah hahahah. FAIL
J-C-C most likely thought that Obama's apology tour was the greatest thing ever.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by Firedome8 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:15 am

Why would trump say we are going to stop joint "war" games with South Korea ? No one was informed of that in advance and who gains? He Just made it up on the spot or is he talking out his as$ ??

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by 1989TransAm » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:25 am

He did it in great consideration of North Korea and the great progress that was made at the meeting in Singapore. He is the commander in chief and can give the order. He can also give the order to start them up again on a moments notice if need be. No big deal.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by David Redszus » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:18 am

Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:15 am
Why would trump say we are going to stop joint "war" games with South Korea ? No one was informed of that in advance and who gains? He Just made it up on the spot or is he talking out his as$ ??
The North Koreans viewed the war game exercises as preparation for a US invasion of NoKor.
Cancellation of the war games saves a lot of money and is a good will gesture toward NoKor.
It was part of the deal making tactics all along. Trump knows how to play poker.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by Ratu » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:22 am

Quoting someone who is being dishonest, "You do not understand what I am saying."

I certainly do understand what you are saying. You are telling lies.

Quoting the same someone, "I know Park was president of South Korea at the time and was replaced by Moon in 2017."

You know that now. You did not know it until I taught you that Moon came along AFTER Obama. See, Moon could not have teamed up with Kim to lead Obama to a deal, as YOU ineptly wrote. You really did not know what you were talking about. You do not know the subject well enough to make intelligent comment. And THAT is your problem right there.

Quoting again, "President Trump started this process when Park was president and continued it when Moon became president later in 2017."

You are making this up out of whole cloth to suit you own political mythology. Understand that your worship of a particular North American political ideology is not an adequate substitution for knowledge of a subject or for possession of fact. You are only fooling yourself with this nonsense.

Quoting, "My point is if this is so easy why did Obama start this process with Park?"

Who said it was easy? That's your ignorant smoke blowing right there. For goodness sake, at least TRY to stop yourself.

If you knew about Korea you'd be aware that Park was a satrap who got kicked out of office for corruption. At that point the US govt started to lose control of the situation in the South. The population has been getting fed up with US military in the country and with US govt policy. The ill will has been steadily growing locally and lately was expressed by the population when they rebelled against foreign political domination by electing Moon, a human rights lawyer keen to seek peace with the North (for the reasons previously posted) and, significantly, a Catholic (and if you knew much about Catholicism in Korea you'd be well aware of the significance of that).

If you knew about Korea, you'd have known that Kim didn't have a proved deliverable nuclear deterrence capable of hitting US targets until July 2017. You'd know that China didn't deliver its warning against US attack on the North until August 2017 (in essence a security guarantee to North Korea). You'd know that Russia issued similar warnings against the US in September 2017. You'd know that the UN representatives of both countries then reiterated “the four nos"- no regime change, no regime collapse, no accelerated reunification, no US military deployment north of the 38th parallel dividing the Korean Peninsula.

You'd also have known to routinely read the English language editions of "The Global Times", "The Straights Times" and other sources FROM THE REGION. You'd have seen the severe comments from Chinese high-ups such as Lt General Wang Hongguang. You'd know the significance of The Global Times and what it chooses to report. You'd know who the General is and what post he holds and why what he says is important (what it means and who it represents). You'd know to be watching reports from RT. You'd know to read the releases from the Kremlin attributed to President Putin. Most importantly, you'd be well familiar with the North Korean view by reading Pyongyang's releases (conveniently available in English so you do not even have to learn to read Korean!). You'd definitely know all about this next quote. It is the official Chinese govt position. “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.”

It was the combination of these occurrences, as well as accelerated military preparedness exhibited by Russia and China in their Eastern regions from November 2017 until around March 2018, which forced the realisation on the US govt that there is no military solution against North Korea, not unless war is the objective (along with millions of deaths and an economic depression). Check the timeline. It is clear what happened and in what order. It is clear what the consequences were and when they were recognised by each party. Look, once Kim had his deterrence in place he was able to stare down US govt belligerence and negotiate on an equal footing. Until Kim had his deterrence in place he was unable to negotiate against the US govt. He was too weak. There was no deal on offer for him. He was doomed (who knows, he may still be). His proof of reasoning was in how he had been treated by your mate Obama. Once he altered the balance, then the situation dramatically changed (and, for him, it was for the better).

Final point you'd have known. The relationship between China and North Korea is not that of allies in the sense of, say, the USA and the UK. The two countries have some interests which are aligned, but there is also a lot of difference and a lot of history between them (not all good either). There is a wary support, but limited trust. There is a lot to this relationship. It takes a while to get a handle on it. Let's best say that still waters run deep.

But, of course, you do not know. All of this is alien to you.

A pity.

Quoting, "If you want to deflect so be it."

You are the one doing the deflecting. You try to wriggle out of what YOU wrote. Trouble for you is, you can't do it.

Time to demonstrate some honesty and integrity. When you do not know something, admit it- at the least admit it to yourself. Then, don't bullshit about it, go learn the subject instead.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by GRTfast » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:36 am

Where is the “bitchslap” smiley?! God damn. Good post Ratu.

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Re: Summit in Singapore

Post by Ratu » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:40 am

Well, that went very well for the President. It was a significant meeting and sets in place a relationship between the two leaders (which is a big deal in many Asian cultures, much more so than a finished, executed contract itself may be). There is still much work to do. It will be interesting to see whether the White House insiders, bureaucrats, neocons, anti-Trumpers and assorted war mongers are able to reverse these first steps and try to wreck the relationship. They are likely to make attempts.

The military exercises- let's tell the truth about these, they are provocative and are deliberately intended to wreck the North Korean agrarian sector, hence causing food shortages and starvation. Quitting them was a good idea. It really does deescalate and reduce tensions. In return it builds trust and has had the nice side effect of having Kim start dismantling some of his military facilities. This is going to be a step by step, piece by piece process. One wonders whether it can prevail over formidable opposition.

Meanwhile, the real mastery in what President Trump has done is to clear the field and provide cover for Moon and Kim to continue to negotiate, as they have been, but now with official US Presidential imprimatur.

There is an interesting angle he could try here, if things progress quickly enough. Once he gets peace on the peninsula, he could try to entice the whole of the Korean Peninsula into the US economic and political orbit by various means (not military but by trade and finance) and use this as a check on China. I assume here, of course, that he seeks continued entanglements in foreign climes, which he has stated he isn't really interested in doing. Still, it is an interesting thought...

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