Presidential Self Pardon

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j-c-c
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Presidential Self Pardon

Post by j-c-c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:16 pm

So do we as a nation need to pass a Constitutional Amendment to head off future potential Constitutional Crises concerning a POTUS pardoning himself?

Trying to include this idea concerning or applying to DT here would be pointless, since most here already have their own shrines in multiple locations of the guy.

Seems like when the next Latin OB gets elected, the idea might get traction.

Best to discuss now, its a time consuming process..

I can't fathom how a POTUS should be allowed to pardon himself, ie "No one is above the law"

Remember, an impeachment is only a removal from office, a pardon, etc is a free pass on criminality.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:31 pm

No what we really need is an amendment that says no one in any elected office can be anti American and an anti constitutionalist nor a Marxist and also can not do anything to remove any liberty's from any person, nor can they help any big company or corporation dictate rules for the people to obey. There is plenty more to add here. With the correct rules for the ruling class it would not matter who the president is the same liberty would exist and micro management would be out the door.
I guess you miss Obum the micro manager. Oh and what criminal thing has Trump done? Collusion is not a crime.
I guess more of your paid babble for the day right?

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by j-c-c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:49 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:31 pm
No what we really need is an amendment that says no one in any elected office can be anti American and an anti constitutionalist nor a Marxist and also can not do anything to remove any liberty's from any person, nor can they help any big company or corporation dictate rules for the people to obey. There is plenty more to add here. With the correct rules for the ruling class it would not matter who the president is the same liberty would exist and micro management would be out the door.
I guess you miss Obum the micro manager. Oh and what criminal thing has Trump done? Collusion is not a crime.
I guess more of your paid babble for the day right?
Maybe we just need an amendment that all stupid people must be come slaves?

You didn't see the part I excluded DT from this discussion because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.

Nice deflection BTW. #-o

edit 3:53pm for clarity

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:02 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:49 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:31 pm
No what we really need is an amendment that says no one in any elected office can be anti American and an anti constitutionalist nor a Marxist and also can not do anything to remove any liberty's from any person, nor can they help any big company or corporation dictate rules for the people to obey. There is plenty more to add here. With the correct rules for the ruling class it would not matter who the president is the same liberty would exist and micro management would be out the door.
I guess you miss Obum the micro manager. Oh and what criminal thing has Trump done? Collusion is not a crime.
I guess more of your paid babble for the day right?
Maybe we just need an amendment that all stupid people must be come slaves?

You didn't see the part I excluded DT from this discussion because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.

Nice deflection BTW. #-o

edit 3:53pm for clarity
So where would you be then?
Oh and right now anyone with a job is a slave of sorts.
I guess my amendment ideas hit a nerve. :lol:

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by j-c-c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:09 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:02 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:49 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:31 pm
No what we really need is an amendment that says no one in any elected office can be anti American and an anti constitutionalist nor a Marxist and also can not do anything to remove any liberty's from any person, nor can they help any big company or corporation dictate rules for the people to obey. There is plenty more to add here. With the correct rules for the ruling class it would not matter who the president is the same liberty would exist and micro management would be out the door.
I guess you miss Obum the micro manager. Oh and what criminal thing has Trump done? Collusion is not a crime.
I guess more of your paid babble for the day right?
Maybe we just need an amendment that all stupid people must be come slaves?

You didn't see the part I excluded DT from this discussion because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.

Nice deflection BTW. #-o

edit 3:53pm for clarity
So where would you be then?
Oh and right now anyone with a job is a slave of sorts.
I guess my amendment ideas hit a nerve. :lol:
Maybe, or Maybe not, does it matter? :lol:

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:14 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:09 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:02 pm
j-c-c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:49 pm


Maybe we just need an amendment that all stupid people must be come slaves?

You didn't see the part I excluded DT from this discussion because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.

Nice deflection BTW. #-o

edit 3:53pm for clarity
So where would you be then?
Oh and right now anyone with a job is a slave of sorts.
I guess my amendment ideas hit a nerve. :lol:
Maybe, or Maybe not, does it matter? :lol:
In the land of CI it does, and I'm not talking engines with that abbreviation.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by David Redszus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm

because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.
That comment ranks as one of the most foolish posted to date.

While the POTUS has the "legal" ability to pardon anyone, himself included, it would be the height of folly.
If the crime were serious enough, impeachment (and conviction) would follow resulting in removal from
office. Once removed, the power to pardon is no longer available and he is subject to legal action just like
anyone else.

Politically, a self pardon would be political suicide and all Presidents are above all else, political animals.

The self pardon power given to POTUS is specifically designed to prevent buffoons like Mueller from abusing their power
(as is current practice) which would encumber the ability of POTUS to carry out his lawful duties to the country.

A presidential pardon allows the President to enact a checks and balance system over the Judicial Branch including
rogue prosecutors and stupid liberal judges.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by j-c-c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:51 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
because his rabid followers are incapable of having a sane discussion, a position that you proved rather nicely.
That comment ranks as one of the most foolish posted to date.
You read this earlier comment right? Want to reconsider?

"exhaustgases wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 pm
No what we really need is an amendment that says no one in any elected office can be anti American and an anti constitutionalist nor a Marxist and also can not do anything to remove any liberty's from any person, nor can they help any big company or corporation dictate rules for the people to obey. There is plenty more to add here. With the correct rules for the ruling class it would not matter who the president is the same liberty would exist and micro management would be out the door.
I guess you miss Obum the micro manager. Oh and what criminal thing has Trump done? Collusion is not a crime.
I guess more of your paid babble for the day right?"



David Redszus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
While the POTUS has the "legal" ability to pardon anyone, himself included, it would be the height of folly.
If the crime were serious enough, impeachment (and conviction) would follow resulting in removal from
office. Once removed, the power to pardon is no longer available and he is subject to legal action just like
anyone else.
The point of this thread is to pass an amendment against self pardon.
An impeachment IS NOT a conviction, its only removal from office.
With a self pardon, no further criminal legal action is available for past federal crimes.

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
Politically, a self pardon would be political suicide and all Presidents are above all else, political animals.
After numerous other political suicide gaffs with DT since taking office, I think the odds are against that outcome, his supporters are never going to hold him accountable for ANYTHING. The worse thing, he is starting to believe it.
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
The self pardon power given to POTUS is specifically designed to prevent buffoons like Mueller from abusing their power
(as is current practice) which would encumber the ability of POTUS to carry out his lawful duties to the country.
Nobody gave anybody "self Pardon" authority, I submit nobody ever dreamed of exerting it, including Nixon. Its also while most feel it would be a grievous constitutional crises, and as many claim, political suicide.
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
A presidential pardon allows the President to enact a checks and balance system over the Judicial Branch including
rogue prosecutors and stupid liberal judges.
Maybe, but where are the checks and balances on the POTUS self pardon, or is the office above the law?

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:08 pm

If my idea for amendments was in, then there is no reason for your idea. Trump is the best there is right now, he so far has been correct about everything the Marxist left media poo's on him with. We flat don't need a Marxist dictator wanting to do things like confiscate our kitchen knives like in the UK. Your a nut case if you can't see the wickedness of your evil party you so love. Oh I'm not into his tariff on metal so leave me out of your discussion of rabid followers.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by j-c-c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:18 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:08 pm
If my idea for amendments was in, then there is no reason for your idea. Trump is the best there is right now, he so far has been correct about everything the Marxist left media poo's on him with. We flat don't need a Marxist dictator wanting to do things like confiscate our kitchen knives like in the UK. Your a nut case if you can't see the wickedness of your evil party you so love. Oh I'm not into his tariff on metal so leave me out of your discussion of rabid followers.
Didn't we just have a Ad hominem discussion?

Dude your amendment suggestion is so fringe, most here will not discuss it, secondly, its a re write of our entire constitution. You sure you have enough hubris to even suggest that?
Amendments are best very clear and on a single topic, if you want them to have any chance of being enacted.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:36 pm

This is another fake news thread that J-C-C has fallen for. Per the Constitution President Trump has the Pardon power and there are no limits. This whole thing is from a hypothetical question raised by the Clinton sycophant George Stephanopoulos on Good Morning America. Hard to believe the cr@p that gets posted by the left.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by David Redszus » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:41 am

While the POTUS has the "legal" ability to pardon anyone, himself included, it would be the height of folly.
If the crime were serious enough, impeachment (and conviction) would follow resulting in removal from
office. Once removed, the power to pardon is no longer available and he is subject to legal action just like
anyone else.
The point of this thread is to pass an amendment against self pardon.
An impeachment IS NOT a conviction, its only removal from office.
With a self pardon, no further criminal legal action is available for past federal crimes.
Impeachment is similar to an indictment by the House. To remove a politician from office a Senate "conviction" is necessary.

It is theoretically possible for a POTUS to be impeached and convicted based on selected offenses. After removal from office he could then be tried for additional crimes.
Politically, a self pardon would be political suicide and all Presidents are above all else, political animals.
After numerous other political suicide gaffs with DT since taking office, I think the odds are against that outcome, his supporters are never going to hold him accountable for ANYTHING. The worse thing, he is starting to believe it.
Trump has done nothing for which his supporters should hold him accountable. In fact, his 60 million plus supporters (a number that is growing daily) should thank the Donald for doing the heavy lifting that other POTUS, both Dimwit and Publicrap have lack the guts to address.
Maybe, but where are the checks and balances on the POTUS self pardon, or is the office above the law?
The office is above the law (it runs the justice Dept) but the office holder is not; he is subject to voter disapproval during re-election..

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by In-Tech » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:34 am

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:41 am
Impeachment is similar to an indictment by the House. To remove a politician from office a Senate "conviction" is necessary.

It is theoretically possible for a POTUS to be impeached and convicted based on selected offenses. After removal from office he could then be tried for additional crimes.
Yes^^^^^^^^^Second grade stuff that so many people seem to forget or have never understood. Indict, Impeach, Court-Martial... all mean charges have been brought and not a conviction. It is the first step toward a conviction.
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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by engineczar » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:03 am

The liberal media keeps talking about Trump pardoning himself. But for what? He did not collude with the Russians, although there is no law against colluding. He did not obstruct justice, because all of his acts are within his discretion as the chief executive. So what we have here is the media generating leaks from a special counsel to keep speculating about noncrimes. This is a witch hunt created and fueled by media and deep state hatred of the duly elected president.

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Re: Presidential Self Pardon

Post by lefty o » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:32 am

it really doesnt matter. ideally one should not be able to pardon themselves, but in the case of a president even if they dont pardon themselves, the next jerkoff to hold the office will do it for them to ensure their future pardon with the next slime ball.

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