Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

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Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by 1989TransAm » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:55 pm

Alan is correct. However the partisan hacks on this forum will disagree. The end justifies the means in their minds. From the article:

"There is much speculation as to the significance of the search of the offices and hotel room of President Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen. To obtain a search warrant, prosecutors must demonstrate to a judge that they have probable cause to believe that the premises to be searched contain evidence of crime. They must also specify the area to be searched, the items to be seized and, in searches of computers, the word searches to be used.
At least that’s the constitutional requirement in theory, especially where the Sixth Amendment right to counsel is involved, in addition to the general Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches. Yet, in practice, judges often give the FBI considerable latitude, relying on the “firewalls” and “taint teams” they set up to protect the subject of the search from violation of his or her constitutional rights.
But the firewalls and taint teams are comprised of government agents who themselves may not be entitled to read or review many of the items seized. It is an imperfect protection of important constitutional rights. That’s why Justice Department officials must be careful to limit the searching of lawyers’ offices to compelling cases involving serious crimes. We don’t know at this point what the prosecutors are looking for but, if it relates to payments made to [Blank Post] star Stormy Daniels, that would not seem to justify so potentially intrusive a search of Cohen’s confidential lawyer-client files.
There are, of course, exceptions to the lawyer-client privilege. First, the lawyer must be acting as a lawyer, not as a friend or business associate. But the scope of a lawyer’s work is quite broad, encompassing much more than merely giving legal advice. It includes settling cases by making payments to potential litigants. Second, the lawyer must be engaged in lawful activities on behalf of the clients. Illegal or fraudulent activities are not covered by the privilege. Nor are communications with third persons, such as the lawyer for the other side, though such communications may be covered by the much weaker “settlement privilege.”
Civil libertarians should be concerned whenever the government interferes with the lawyer-client relationship. Clients should be able to rely on confidentiality when they disclose their most intimate secrets in an effort to secure their legal rights. A highly publicized raid on the president’s lawyer will surely shake the confidence of many clients in promises of confidentiality by their lawyers. They will not necessarily understand the nuances of the confidentiality rules and their exceptions. They will see a lawyer’s office being raided and all his files seized.
I believe we would have been hearing more from civil libertarians— the American Civil Liberties Union, attorney groups and privacy advocates — if the raid had been on Hillary Clinton’s lawyer. Many civil libertarians have remained silent about potential violations of President Trump’s rights because they strongly disapprove of him and his policies. That is a serious mistake, because these violations establish precedents that lie around like loaded guns capable of being aimed at other targets.
I have been widely attacked for defending the constitutional rights of a president I voted against. In our hyperpartisan age, everyone is expected to choose a side, either for or against Trump. But the essence of civil liberties is that they must be equally applicable to all. The silence among most civil libertarians regarding the recent raid shows that we are losing that valuable neutrality.
What else does the raid tell us? It seems likely that special counsel Robert Mueller is bifurcating the investigation: He will keep control over matters relating to Russia, the campaign and any possible obstruction. But he has handed over to the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York any matters relating to Trump’s personal and business affairs. Mueller will work hand in hand with the New York prosecutors, but they will be in charge of the other matters. If they manage to find prosecutable evidence against Trump’s lawyer, they may try to squeeze him into cooperating against his client.
It is doubtful that Cohen would cooperate, even if he has anything on his client. But prosecutors often try to get lawyers to “sing” against their clients — to become “canaries” — in order to save their own feathers. Some flipped witnesses will tell prosecutors anything they want to hear in order to earn a “get out of jail free card.” They know that the “better” their story, the more leniency they will earn. So, in addition to singing, they “compose” by making up incriminating details.
I have seen this on many occasions. Mueller has already apparently flipped several witnesses, but Cohen would be his biggest catch in the unlikely event he could be induced to turn against his client. So, stay tuned to this unfolding drama, but remember that prosecutorial tactics used today against President Trump may tomorrow be used against Democrats — and even against you. "

http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/38 ... rry-us-all

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by mk e » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:30 pm

Get out a lawyer doesn't think lawyers should targets?

But it turns out that lawyers end up in trouble all the time. Most legislators, aka "the swamp", are lawyers. Mob lawyers are probably a better analogy and are arrested all the time.

Cohen said he entered into a personal agreement without Rump's knowledge.....that could get him disbarred. The he said he used his personal money, which is an illegal campaign contributions. So he's in trouble.

Then Rump made it clear Cohen was acting on Rump's behalf....so now Rump's in trouble to for misuse of campaign money at the minimum.
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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by engineczar » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:47 pm

So the total confiscation of lawyer/client information even that which has nothing to do with Trump is ok?

So if a lawyer you hire let's say it's a divorce lawyer got investigated for something that has nothing to do with your case and because they collected everything in the office and among that was your information you'd be ok with that?

You should take off the Trump Derangement goggles for a second and think about what a bad precedent this is.

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:09 pm

mk e wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:30 pm
Get out a lawyer doesn't think lawyers should targets?
Shocking...who would have thought!! :lol:

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by mk e » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:10 pm

engineczar wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:47 pm
So the total confiscation of lawyer/client information even that which has nothing to do with Trump is ok?

So if a lawyer you hire let's say it's a divorce lawyer got investigated for something that has nothing to do with your case and because they collected everything in the office and among that was your information you'd be ok with that?
It doesn't work that way. Raiding s lawyer's office is tricky. First for need a warrant and to get it you need to show the judge there is clear evidence the lawyer participated in a specific crime. Then a team separate from the team invesyigating/prosecuting the crime need to serve the warrant and process what is collected, then hand over what and only what the warrant is specifically issued for. The 2 teams can't speak, if they do then everything is tosses out.

This process ensures that what you describe can't happen, but a lawyer committing a crime can be investigated just like anyone else.
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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by j-c-c » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:08 pm

mk e wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:10 pm
engineczar wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:47 pm
So the total confiscation of lawyer/client information even that which has nothing to do with Trump is ok?

So if a lawyer you hire let's say it's a divorce lawyer got investigated for something that has nothing to do with your case and because they collected everything in the office and among that was your information you'd be ok with that?
It doesn't work that way. Raiding s lawyer's office is tricky. First for need a warrant and to get it you need to show the judge there is clear evidence the lawyer participated in a specific crime. Then a team separate from the team invesyigating/prosecuting the crime need to serve the warrant and process what is collected, then hand over what and only what the warrant is specifically issued for. The 2 teams can't speak, if they do then everything is tosses out.

This process ensures that what you describe can't happen, but a lawyer committing a crime can be investigated just like anyone else.
If i make it bigger, think it makes it easier to understand? :lol:

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by j-c-c » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:14 pm

For DT to be so distraught over this client attorney "violation". based on his very constitutional cavalier attitude for the past 16? months, I think we now know who has/had the smoking gun. =D>

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by 1989TransAm » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:16 pm

engineczar wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:47 pm
So the total confiscation of lawyer/client information even that which has nothing to do with Trump is ok?

So if a lawyer you hire let's say it's a divorce lawyer got investigated for something that has nothing to do with your case and because they collected everything in the office and among that was your information you'd be ok with that?

You should take off the Trump Derangement goggles for a second and think about what a bad precedent this is.
Precisely. They will look at everything to see if they can find something to use on President Trump. Some on this forum do not seem to have a problem with that. Again to them the means justifies the end.

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:19 pm

The only safe lawyers are Hilllarrry ones. Just look how she got a way with ???? When she got that rapist off.

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by mk e » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Precisely. They will look at everything to see if they can find something to use on President Trump. Some on this forum do not seem to have a problem with that.
More than don't have a problem with it, it's their sworn duty.

If he's clean he's got nothing at all to worry about.....but all the indictments so far moving up the chain suggest he already sh!t his pants and the feds are just following the stink.
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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:18 pm

mk e wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Precisely. They will look at everything to see if they can find something to use on President Trump. Some on this forum do not seem to have a problem with that.
More than don't have a problem with it, it's their sworn duty.

If he's clean he's got nothing at all to worry about.....but all the indictments so far moving up the chain suggest he already sh!t his pants and the feds are just following the stink.
Sooooooooooooooo funnnnnny,,,,stink ?????????????? They haven't even tried to find the stink. Hilllllarrry and all those associated with her are not even touched. Nor is the DEMO C RAT CONTROLLED FBI.

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 pm

Gotta love the due process.....a wonderful thing =D> :mrgreen:

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by 1989TransAm » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 pm
Gotta love the due process.....a wonderful thing =D> :mrgreen:
That is just down right laughable. Due process in the Mueller investigation? :mrgreen: What is the underlying crime and what is the evidence. This investigation is nothing but a search for a crime.

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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by mk e » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:10 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:18 pm

Sooooooooooooooo funnnnnny,,,,stink ?????????????? They haven't even tried to find the stink. Hilllllarrry and all those associated with her are not even touched. Nor is the DEMO C RAT CONTROLLED FBI.
The FBI works for Rump now and they are free to investigate Hillary. If they believe there is cause I welcome it.....but at the moment they have bigger fish to get it appears.
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Re: Dershowitz: Targeting Trump's lawyer should worry us all

Post by RevTheory » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:00 am

1989TransAm wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 pm
That is just down right laughable. Due process in the Mueller investigation? :mrgreen: What is the underlying crime and what is the evidence. This investigation is nothing but a search for a crime.
Hannity made an interesting point about how Mueller, having no evidence of collusion or obstruction, now has a backdoor to all of Trump's business dealings for many years. What's that old saying, "you show me a man and I'll find you a crime".

I wonder why ohbummer was able to spend 4 million to seal his records and mum was the word but now we're crashing down doors and taking everything but the sofa in hopes of finding something to pin on this guy.

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