China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:51 pm

Dow down 458 on tariff fears and trumps idiotic comments about Amazon.

Go trump Go! =D>

Keep in mind china hasnt even begun to hit us where it really hurts yet. That will most likely come after this friday.... #-o

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:17 pm

Good ole Sandy. One of those on this board who likes huge trade deficits.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:24 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:17 pm
Good ole Sandy. One of those on this board who likes huge trade deficits.
Trade deficit or trade war...whats worse? [-X

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:03 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:24 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:17 pm
Good ole Sandy. One of those on this board who likes huge trade deficits.
Trade deficit or trade war...whats worse? [-X
What is you solution?

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:05 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:03 pm

What is you solution?
It was a question. Whats your answer?

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:15 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:05 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:03 pm

What is you solution?
It was a question. Whats your answer?
Just as I thought. You do not have an answer but just like to mouth off. I am letting President Trump lead as no one else seems to want to do anything about it including President Bush when he as in charge.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:22 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:15 pm


Just as I thought. You do not have an answer but just like to mouth off. I am letting President Trump lead as no one else seems to want to do anything about it including President Bush when he as in charge.
Since you wont answer (or are not capable) I'll ask another way:

Are trade deficits always a bad thing?

Go ahead...take you time. :mrgreen:

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:23 pm

Brian P writes, "I am not sure what Ratu means by getting out of TPP and NAFTA and not replacing those deals. I think what he means is to get out of those deals and ELIMINATE tariffs and trade barriers."

Yes. That is exactly right.

Quoting, "That doesn't appear to be what Trump wants to do. Trump wants to slap tariffs on anything and everything that someone else can supply or make less expensively than the US can."

Yes. It does seem so. Notice who pays the tariffs? It aint the Chinese...

Quoting, "No one wins trade wars. If Trump's policies lead to US isolationism (and they are heading in that direction), the rest of the world will leave the US behind."

Yes. That is the inevitable outcome of it, sad to say. The standard of living for the common man will continue to drop.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:47 pm

lefty o writes, "with china being a country that cant feed all its mouths, an added tariff on food products from the US hurts the chinese people more than the US. sure they will still get the food, but now they will either pay more for it directly, or they get it via other countries still having come from the US first. "

That is not correct. The Chinese can trade for all the food they need from other countries. NONE needs to be sourced from the US. Perhaps you had not noticed that the Russian Federation is now the largest exporter of wheat on the planet? The Russian agricultural sector has developed dramatically over recent times. It continues to grow at an impressive pace. It will soon be capable of feeding China by itself. This is a huuuuuge opportunity for them. They know it. It is also an opportunity for Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, India, Iran, Vietnam, Australia, Thailand, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Philippines, Pakistan, Turkey, etc. Familiarise yourself with China's OBOR project. Open a map of the region. You'll soon realise what is about to happen. Chinese government is not scoring an own goal here. It is they who have time on their side. They are the ones playing the long game.

Quoting, "its a lose lose situation for china."

All trade wars are lose/lose. In this case the Chinese will necessarily prevail. There are two reasons. They are that China has alternative trades it can avail itself of, bypassing the USA. Also, China is shortly to be the largest economic power on the planet (if not already). Further, it is not consuming wealth on welfare, nor on international warfare. Take note also that should China refuse to purchase any debt from the US and then begin selling what US debt it presently holds, the US economy will collapse immediately.

Quoting, "may make things slightly more difficult short term for US food producers, but they will still sell their product."

Where will they sell it to? What prices will they get (higher or lower)? For how long will this persist? Not that it matters much in the long run really. As indicated previously, when the Ogallala and the remaining great aquifers of North America are exhausted (which is not that far from now), then agricultural production will drop quite severely. Exporting will be the least of the worries. THEN prices will rise- locally.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:06 pm

RevTheory writes, "Nobody's going to abandon the US dollar as the global currency (at least not anything meaningful)".

Afraid so. Practically everybody is going to abandon it- well, certainly the majority of the world will. This is already occurring. It started with Russia trading direct with Iran in local currency, not intermediated with the USD. Now China is full steam ahead, busy removing the USD as international reserve currency. One example, China has been putting pressure on the Saudis, among others, to accept payment for oil and gas in gold or in Yuan. The Saudis have seen their portion of the Chinese energy market collapse from more than half to less than a sixth, so they are definitely feeling the pinch (don't forget they are now international debtors). This year the Chinese opened a gold-backed Yuan-denominated futures bourse in Shanghai. That is a device which can be and is being used to price oil in Yuan, not in USD. When (and it is a matter of "when" and not "if") the Saudis take the opportunity to use it, then the USD is going to be dumped by everybody right around the world. USD demand will crater, as it will not be exclusively demanded for international trade- not any longer. This is a process which has been gathering pace over recent times. Count on it coming to its obvious conclusion very soon.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:11 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:22 pm
1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:15 pm


Just as I thought. You do not have an answer but just like to mouth off. I am letting President Trump lead as no one else seems to want to do anything about it including President Bush when he as in charge.
Since you wont answer (or are not capable) I'll ask another way:

Are trade deficits always a bad thing?

Go ahead...take you time. :mrgreen:
Not the huge deficits that we have been running. What is your answer?

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:21 am

I like big tariffs on food going out of the US as well as coming in the US why? If china won't buy apples our prices will go down the farmers will want to sell them, and oh since all export is the best of the best we will also have better quality apples now.
Second we don't want tainted food from other countries where the workers use the fields as toilets and probably the same with the cookie and cracker production lines as well.
Just watch some videos how unsterile the production of things like sutures and needles are made in places like china. We need a 1000% tariff on medical supply's from other countries.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:58 am

1989TransAm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:11 pm


Not the huge deficits that we have been running. What is your answer?
Trade deficits can be a sign of a strong economy and most economists agree on that.

Trade wars are a loser for everybody involved.

My answer is deficits are ok and trade wars are not.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by lefty o » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:17 am

Ratu wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:47 pm
lefty o writes, "with china being a country that cant feed all its mouths, an added tariff on food products from the US hurts the chinese people more than the US. sure they will still get the food, but now they will either pay more for it directly, or they get it via other countries still having come from the US first. "

That is not correct. The Chinese can trade for all the food they need from other countries. NONE needs to be sourced from the US. Perhaps you had not noticed that the Russian Federation is now the largest exporter of wheat on the planet? The Russian agricultural sector has developed dramatically over recent times. It continues to grow at an impressive pace. It will soon be capable of feeding China by itself. This is a huuuuuge opportunity for them. They know it. It is also an opportunity for Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, India, Iran, Vietnam, Australia, Thailand, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Philippines, Pakistan, Turkey, etc. Familiarise yourself with China's OBOR project. Open a map of the region. You'll soon realise what is about to happen. Chinese government is not scoring an own goal here. It is they who have time on their side. They are the ones playing the long game.

Quoting, "its a lose lose situation for china."

All trade wars are lose/lose. In this case the Chinese will necessarily prevail. There are two reasons. They are that China has alternative trades it can avail itself of, bypassing the USA. Also, China is shortly to be the largest economic power on the planet (if not already). Further, it is not consuming wealth on welfare, nor on international warfare. Take note also that should China refuse to purchase any debt from the US and then begin selling what US debt it presently holds, the US economy will collapse immediately.

Quoting, "may make things slightly more difficult short term for US food producers, but they will still sell their product."

Where will they sell it to? What prices will they get (higher or lower)? For how long will this persist? Not that it matters much in the long run really. As indicated previously, when the Ogallala and the remaining great aquifers of North America are exhausted (which is not that far from now), then agricultural production will drop quite severely. Exporting will be the least of the worries. THEN prices will rise- locally.
ive been to quite a few of those countries you just mentioned, and you dont know what the heck your talking about.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Brian P » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:08 pm

The point is that China (and the rest of the world) can do without the USA much better than the USA can do without China (and the rest of the world).

China does not need to import food from the USA. The USA is uncomfortably close to running out of fresh water that supports irrigated farming.

China buys a lot of US government bonds. If they stop doing that ... look out.

The situation is much better if we all get along, and slapping tariffs on imports is not the way to do that.

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