China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

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China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:54 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1H81J3
China has increased tariffs by up to 25 percent on 128 U.S. products, from frozen pork and wine to certain fruits and nuts, escalating a dispute between the world’s biggest economies in response to U.S. duties on imports of aluminum and steel. http://speedtalk.com/forum/posting.php?mode=post&f=33#
The tariffs, to take effect on Monday, were announced late on Sunday by China’s finance ministry and matched a list of possible tariffs on up to $3 billion in U.S. goods published by China on March 23.

Soon after the announcement, an editorial in the widely read Global Times newspaper warned that if the United States had thought China would not retaliate or would only take symbolic counter-measures, it could “say goodbye to that delusion”.

“Even though China and the U.S. have not publicly said they are in a trade war, the sparks of such a war have already started to fly,” the newspaper said.

The Ministry of Commerce said it was suspending its obligations to the World Trade Organization (WTO) to reduce tariffs on 120 U.S. goods, including fruit and ethanol. The tariffs on those products will be raised by an extra 15 percent.
The art of the deal...

Or as Rev would claim....the long game!

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 am

You're damn right. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it isn't so.

When are you Chicken Littles going to learn that Russia can't afford an arms race and China can't afford a trade war? Yeah your 2 dollar widget from Walmart might cost 2.10 for a little bit they can't win this "war".

Stop letting media fear mongering and the flacid policies of previous presidents who got us in this mess in the first place dictate your emotions. Of course, you'll never overlook an opportunity for a troll thread.

Edit: (as opposed to 6 posts in a row :roll:) I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here but I'm going to try to help you understand something. If you institute a policy and you get very little backlash, you know the policy had no teeth and nobody gives a shit: business as usual, nothing changes. Maybe you scored a couple of political points with your base for reelection but that's about it. If you make a bold move like Trump just did and countries freak out threatening retribution and trade war and whatever else they think will have the most impact to hopefully get you to change your mind, you know you've touched on something that will actually impact them.

Now the question is who can outlast who? And if we win (and other than the media crying about the sky falling, we should) you can take that half-trillion dollar trade deficit and chop it in half, at least.

And if Putin wants to keep his shit up, we can drive them into bankruptcy again. It's all a big dog vs. big dog pissing match at the highest level. Quit being a chihuahua.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:00 am

RevTheory wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 am
You're damn right. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it isn't so.

When are you Chicken Littles going to learn that Russia can't afford an arms race and China can't afford a trade war? Yeah your 2 dollar widget from Walmart might cost 2.10 for a little bit they can't win this "war".

Stop letting media fear mongering and the flacid policies of previous presidents who got us in this mess in the first place dictate your emotions. Of course, you'll never overlook an opportunity for a troll thread.

Edit: (as opposed to 6 posts in a row :roll:) I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here but I'm going to try to help you understand something. If you institute a policy and you get very little backlash, you know the policy had no teeth and nobody gives a shit: business as usual, nothing changes. Maybe you scored a couple of political points with your base for reelection but that's about it. If you make a bold move like Trump just did and countries freak out threatening retribution and trade war and whatever else they think will have the most impact to hopefully get you to change your mind, you know you've touched on something that will actually impact them.

Now the question is who can outlast who? And if we win (and other than the media crying about the sky falling, we should) you can take that half-trillion dollar trade deficit and chop it in half, at least.

And if Putin wants to keep his shit up, we can drive them into bankruptcy again. It's all a big dog vs. big dog pissing match at the highest level. Quit being a chihuahua.
F-ing Moron... #-o

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:17 am

Like I said, just because your brain stopped developing when you were getting beat up at the age of 10, doesn't mean that things don't work that way. There's a reason that people with name tags on their shirts don't have access to the boardroom.

And by the way, what you choose to not address says far more about your inability to grasp concepts than even your emojis do.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:21 pm

Rev went from "China will concede and deal with us" to "we will see who can outlast who" in the span of a couple of weeks.

At least Trump is keeping you on your toes... :lol:

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by j-c-c » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:23 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:17 am
Like I said, just because your brain stopped developing when you were getting beat up at the age of 10, doesn't mean that things don't work that way. There's a reason that people with name tags on their shirts don't have access to the boardroom.

And by the way, what you choose to not address says far more about your inability to grasp concepts than even your emojis do.
Pretty simplistic, I see.
Ever been in a boardroom with out a broom? #-o

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by mk e » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:44 pm

There was a time about 50 years ago when the US could do almost whatever it wanted trade wise....those days are gone.

The US is the largest economy, technically.....but the EU is bigger. China all by itself will be bigger in about 15-20 years.

NAFTA was designed to help us deal with the EU
TPP was designed to deal with China

Rump has damaged both.

Russia is about to sign a deal with OPEC to help control oil prices, as in keep them high. Rump allowed this to happen.

Countries in the gulf, including a NATO member are now buying Russian weapons. Rump allowed this to happen.

The worst threat to US security short and long term is RUMP, no question......he's inflicting massive damage while he distracts with saying he's solving the Mexican "threat".....but at least he's saving us from low fruit and vegetable prices by making sure there's not a reliable labor force to pick them.
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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by 1989TransAm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:21 pm

Interesting how the lefties on this forum love the huge trade imbalances and our jobs going over seas.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Any of you who believes arguments that "the US is going to win a trade war" is delusional. You (personally) are about to lose. You are going to be the losers, each and every one of you. Each of you is going to be spending more and more of your wealth on government. Each of you is going to be submitting more and more in tribute to your rulers. Get it into your minds that a tariff on imports is a tax on each of you. It benefits a vanishingly tiny elite of insider cronies, "mates of the state", while it extracts labour, asset, well-being and wealth from you. They play, you pay.

President Trump has taken poor advice on this matter. He is not economically well educated (actually it would appear he is shockingly ignorant on economic matters). His actions are an expensive mistake, one which you are about to begin paying for big time.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:07 pm

1989transam

You do not "own" a job. That a person or entity is prepared to trade money with you for your labour does not mean you "own" the tasks he wants undertaken. You have no right of ownership in them whatsoever. He is free to ask someone else to do the tasks.

If trade imbalances matter so much to you, then you ought to be asking why they are present. What is the causal element. Take a look at the regulations and tax laws in the USA and compare them with somewhat more enlightened regimes such as China or Russia. Notice anything? You ought to.

Funny how small "c" conservatives, neo-cons and various others conventionally referred to as of the political "right" love the big state, its regulations and taxes. Indeed they worship at its feet, licking the grey lint from right between its moist and fungal toes. Funny how they worship wars of various kinds- war on poverty, war on drugs, war on terror, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Funny every single one ends up in defeat. Funny how they keep baying (and paying) for yet more of the same. Must be they like the taste.

Yuck.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Ratu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:39 pm

mk e

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but.....

Quoting, "There was a time about 50 years ago when the US could do almost whatever it wanted trade wise....those days are gone."

That is correct in as far as it goes. The beginning of the end of US hegemony was publically marked by the late President Nixon when he closed the gold window in 1971. Its decline had started well before to that however. Those in the know has been quick to redeem gold for US dollars and had been doing it for some years prior. They understood that the war of aggression in Vietnam as well as the rise of the welfare state (the "Great Society") had already started bleeding the US and its people dry. Trusting the Saudis to shore up the US appeared a viable work-around, but not at all sustainable lat alone moral. And now the rest of the world has caught on, caught up and and passed ahead...

Quoting, "NAFTA was designed to help us deal with the EU
TPP was designed to deal with China"

Not so. Not unless by "us" you are referring to govt cronies and insiders. I doubt you are an example of those. NAFTA and TPP are examples of schemes intended to "manage" trade ensuring that specific powerful and wealthy interests are protected and served while preventing the rise of competitors. They both act against the interests of ordinary people. Both need to go. President Trump deserves credit for getting the USA out of TPP. He deserves full credit for getting the USA out of the climate accord. He needs to do the same with NAFTA. Eliminate each and do not replace.

Addressing your remaining points.

Russian government can do deals with whomever. The President of the USA is not the President of the Russian Federation. President Trump has no business attempting to run Russian trade. Always remember the saying, "mind your own business" or, as Jordan Peterson teaches "first clean your own bedroom". Remember and apply it.

The USA is an empire going into end stage decline. A financial catastrophe is baked in. There is nothing that the President can do to avert it now. It is far too late. The culture is failing, morality is compromised at every level, the society is divided against itself, the government and its "laws" are visibly unjust and the whole show is an incoherent, collapsing mess. The swamp cannot be drained because there is nowhere to drain it to. The entirety, from coast to coast is swamped.

By the way, once the mighty aquifers of the USA are drained (not so long from now) securing a reliable labour force to harvest crops will be of a minor concern...

Cheerful news indeed (not).

R

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:43 pm

I sure wish it wasn't so difficult for people to understand how Donald Trump works. Perhaps you should do a little reading instead of just spouting off whatever Soros-funded media thinks you should think. Try reading The Art of the Deal, The Art of the Comeback, Think Big!, and Never Give Up!. I know books are a little difficult for people like sandytroll but these would give you an idea of how Donald Trump thinks. Rather than freaking out over something that the far-left media tells you to freak out over, you can step back, see the bigger picture (endgame sandy) and say, "ahhhh, I see what you're up to."

If you were able to understand that, you'd see just how petty your day-to-day superficial arguments really are. Do you not think that Trump knows he's setting the day's media frenzy when he tweets in the morning? What do you think he's doing over here when you guys are scrambling over there? Heads up: he sent you over there for a reason.

The only way America goes down in flames as Ratu predicted is if we keep electing the Kasich, Bush, Hillary types. Everyone is demanding change and now we've got someone bringing actual change and they're screaming about it. I guess it sucks when your lobbyists and donors lose.

I wish the media and those that think they know better would just settle the [DELETE THIS POST] down for a couple of years and let things play out. Those of us who are mature adults gave ohdummy a chance without blowing the hell out of random forums with troll threads three times a day.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by Brian P » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:41 pm

I am not sure what Ratu means by getting out of TPP and NAFTA and not replacing those deals. I think what he means is to get out of those deals and ELIMINATE tariffs and trade barriers. That doesn't appear to be what Trump wants to do. Trump wants to slap tariffs on anything and everything that someone else can supply or make less expensively than the US can.

No one wins trade wars. If Trump's policies lead to US isolationism (and they are heading in that direction), the rest of the world will leave the US behind.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by lefty o » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:15 pm

with china being a country that cant feed all its mouths, an added tariff on food products from the US hurts the chinese people more than the US. sure they will still get the food, but now they will either pay more for it directly, or they get it via other countries still having come from the US first. its a lose lose situation for china. may make things slightly more difficult short term for US food producers, but they will still sell their product.

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Re: China hammers U.S. goods with tariffs as 'sparks' of trade war fly

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:32 pm

I've learned over the last year that there's no sense in trying to explain Trump's strategy and tactics on this board. So while a couple of you guys freak the hell out like mk e trying to pretend that Donald Trump is only president to make money (you've lost your argument if that's where your brain goes), I'll just try to sit back and watch how things play out.

Nobody's going to abandon the US dollar as the global currency (at least not anything meaningful), Donald Trump isn't the devil who's going to doom us all and the sky isn't falling, at least not anymore. That's all far-left media hysteria.

What's going to be even more enjoyable than watching the Trump trolls freak out everyday is listening to them try to rationalize why the sky didn't actually fall, we didn't end up in nuclear war and things are actually better.

And right on, lefty o, you get it.

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