Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

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1989TransAm
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Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by 1989TransAm » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:49 pm

"Tesla's Elon Musk is complaining to President Donald Trump about China's car tariffs on Twitter.

"Do you think the US & China should have equal & fair rules for cars? Meaning, same import duties, ownership constraints & other factors," Musk said in response to a Trump tweet about trade with China. "I am against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... spartandhp

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by dirtracr5 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:12 am

1989TransAm wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:49 pm
"Tesla's Elon Musk is complaining to President Donald Trump about China's car tariffs on Twitter.

"Do you think the US & China should have equal & fair rules for cars? Meaning, same import duties, ownership constraints & other factors," Musk said in response to a Trump tweet about trade with China. "I am against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... spartandhp
He's against them but is ok with them when it benefits his company personally. Same way the steel industry feels now.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by 1989TransAm » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:48 am

dirtracr5 wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:12 am
1989TransAm wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:49 pm
"Tesla's Elon Musk is complaining to President Donald Trump about China's car tariffs on Twitter.

"Do you think the US & China should have equal & fair rules for cars? Meaning, same import duties, ownership constraints & other factors," Musk said in response to a Trump tweet about trade with China. "I am against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... spartandhp
He's against them but is ok with them when it benefits his company personally. Same way the steel industry feels now.
Is that not true with most people?

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Ken0069 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:10 am

What I like is where they note that China puts a 25% tariff on Musk cars coming into China, but China cars coming to the USA only get a 2.5% tariff?? A WTF moment for sure! How is that "free" trade? [-X
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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by turbo2256b » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:26 pm

FREE TRADE AGREEMENTs are free to bring into US but to sell US goods overseas big tariffs.

sold a crank pully to a guy in the England charged him like 10 or 20 bucks. at any rate some were over that price he would be hit for tariffs
Sold ithink some front coil springs to a guy in Canada for 60.00 after paying the tariff it was over 120.00 if he purchased new ones at 120.00 would have been over 200.00 including tariffs so he was happy.

I can see tariffs with Mexico would be more important higher than with Canada because wages in Canada are close to wages in the US but not so with Mexico. Tariffs are to protect a countries wages in part.

Basicly after WWII the reality of trade wars began

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Splitter » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:52 pm

turbo2256b wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:26 pm
FREE TRADE AGREEMENTs are free to bring into US but to sell US goods overseas big tariffs.

sold a crank pully to a guy in the England charged him like 10 or 20 bucks. at any rate some were over that price he would be hit for tariffs
Sold ithink some front coil springs to a guy in Canada for 60.00 after paying the tariff it was over 120.00 if he purchased new ones at 120.00 would have been over 200.00 including tariffs so he was happy.

I can see tariffs with Mexico would be more important higher than with Canada because wages in Canada are close to wages in the US but not so with Mexico. Tariffs are to protect a countries wages in part.

Basicly after WWII the reality of trade wars began
6% tariff on most auto parts imported to Canada from the US. The rest of it is shipping, taxes, and customs brokerage...thats where the costs add up.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Brian P » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:25 pm

turbo2256b wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:26 pm
FREE TRADE AGREEMENTs are free to bring into US but to sell US goods overseas big tariffs.
If there is a free trade agreement in place, there will be no tariffs in either direction.

The above-mentioned duty on auto parts being brought into Canada does not apply if the country of origin is any of the NAFTA countries.

Canada already has a free-trade agreement with the EU, as well, although it doesn't cover everything, so shipments between Canada and Europe should be free of any tariffs for apparently about 98% of goods.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem for a Canadian buying something from the USA is that UPS (most common shipper chosen by American companies) charges an arm and a leg to process the import paperwork ... which you can usually do yourself. Or, if you can accept not having a tracked and insured shipment (for small purchases that aren't the end of the world if something goes wrong) - just have them shipped by the postal service.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Ratu » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:25 pm

You do not have and have not experienced international Free Trade. What you are dealing with is managed trade. This is when there are "agreements" of hundreds or thousands of pages of clauses, classifications, rules, processes, clarifications etc etc etc etc etc and the like, all for the benefit of insiders and all paid for by everyone else. Free Trade is not this.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Brian P » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:42 pm

Ratu wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:25 pm
You do not have and have not experienced international Free Trade. What you are dealing with is managed trade. This is when there are "agreements" of hundreds or thousands of pages of clauses, classifications, rules, processes, clarifications etc etc etc etc etc and the like, all for the benefit of insiders and all paid for by everyone else. Free Trade is not this.
I agree completely.

The European Union has free trade within itself. You can drive from one country to the next and no one interrogates you, you don't even stop. The old border crossing buildings in many cases are still there, but abandoned. There is nothing stopping anyone from buying something in one of the other countries and bringing it home. Now, it is quite apparent that this brings its own set of challenges, but indeed, that is free trade.

Until the border crossing between Canada and USA is a simple check of whether one is attempting to bring in something that is illegal in the other country (can't bring guns into Canada, can't bring marijuana into the USA, that sort of thing), we do not really have free trade.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by lefty o » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:55 pm

there has been no "free trade" between the US and other countries for quite some time. our politicians have sold us out in order to line their own pockets. it has been needed for many years, if the chinese tax us 10 or 20% on a product, we should tax their products identically.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Ratu » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:34 pm

The very best way to deal with a country putting border tariffs on your exports at THEIR border is to do absolutely nothing. What they are doing is taxing their own citizens, not yours. Let them pay to keep their oligarchs in business. Let THEIR people pay for it. Sooner or later those same people will recognise the robbery and begin agitate about it. Same goes for subsidies. Whenever they subsidise an industry, or they subsidise exporters, they are forcing their own people to forgo wealth to fund the subsidy. If they subsidise exports that is good news for you, as you are able to get the goods cheap. Their people are paying part of your costs! Let them do that and you can sit back to enjoy the windfall. You are being made richer at their expense. Sooner or later their population will recognise they are being fleeced and begin political agitation. Meanwhile you benefit. Enjoy it while it lasts.

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Re: Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Post by Ratu » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:21 am

The musty one has his snout deep in the trough of other people's money. THAT is what keeps him in "business". Without all the subsidies and handouts of other people's money his ventures would be in liquidation in an eye blink. None of them make any economic or business sense except as vehicles for wealth transfer from ordinary working people who live in the USA. Nice for us guys over here, as we can buy his rich-man toys at discount price, but not so much for those Statesiders who a) can't afford to buy one and b) who have to subsidise those who can.

Basically, Elon is annoyed that the Chinese government do not want him active in their country. They are keeping him at arm's length and away from China. Tariffs are bad news, but principle of Free Trade vs. tariffs and border taxes is not what irritates him. The real issue bugging Elon is that China is going to be taking the electric car market away from him everywhere and not just in China very, very soon. He is swiftly running out of time.

--

On a related note, did you notice what Hyundai just did to Elon at the Geneva car show? They placed a huge billboard directly outside the Geneva Motor Show promoting their new subcompact electric sport-utility vehicle and called him out. Their billboard has a picture of their new electric car and says, "Your turn Elon." In a press statement to USA Today they state, "Hyundai’s ad is intended to highlight the fact that some companies — including Hyundai — are bringing real solutions to the market, while others are just talking about them," and, "Hyundai respects the efforts of anyone moving forward the electrification of cars — not just with concepts and promises, but with action and products available now." Note the words "available now." Further comments from Hyundai demonstrate they appear not to consider $50,000 to $100,000 vehicles as "available" in the sense of availability for supply to ordinary people.

Now that critique of Elon Musk and Tesla cars is from a South Korean company which imports much of the materials, sub-components, assemblies and capital for its car manufacturing from......China. Recall also that China is a leading supplier of lithium cells and is a leading producer of items which require rare earth materials.... As is well said, join the dots.

Elon has been quite foolish with his big-noting. For example, dismissing Toyota's manufacturing prowess as outmoded, especially when his own products suffer from significant quality related issues which Toyota's do not. Talking about "smacking down" the existing car industry when all he has been able to produce are a relative handful of derivative sedans and SUVs (albeit quite pricey ones) and has completely failed to address the mass market. Well, there is not going to be much sympathy for his predicament now. Ask yourself this, what does Elon and his company bring to the table that the car industry does not already possess or can't get for itself?

Remember, the Tesla business model was supposed to be to out-licence technology or even sell to an existing manufacturer. He needs friends and allies right now. The trash talk really helps doesn't it?

Last point, the vaunted megafactory is a bet on a particular battery chemistry and physical layout prevailing for electric and hybrid vehicles far into the future. If it does not prevail and something else is selected by the car industry (say), then it is a losing bet. Elon ought to be looking very carefully indeed at what the competition is presently working on and, bad news for him, that competition includes several car manufacturers whom it would appear do not intend to purchase batteries from the megafactory...

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