Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by 1989TransAm » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:23 pm

President Trump is no Neville Chamberlin. He knows exactly what the stakes are.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by j-c-c » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:16 am

1989TransAm wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:23 pm
President Trump is no Neville Chamberlin. He knows exactly what the stakes are.
I might begin to believe the above, but my bets are DT doesn't know what part Neville Chamberlin. even played in WW2.

Besides, It apprears the "meeting" was just another in a long list political rash moves to deflect the media from another political sink hole named "Stormy", and it worked, and now DT slowly walks back the Dotard/Rocket-man summit.

But boy, his supporters sure got a needed boost out of the "brilliance" of the "new Sheriff in town" handing the world "peace in our time" again, mainly from a debacle he himself help ratchet up.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by RevTheory » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:42 am

Yeah, that's it; Trump conjured the whole thing up (a year in the making, btw) so he could deflect the media from a story that wasn't even out yet. He even went so far as to have the S. Koreans fly halfway around the world and give a statement on N. Korea at the White House to provide Trump cover.

You liberal nutjobs have lost your arguments and you've lost your minds.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by gmrocket » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Remember when the lefties where pulling their hair out when trump sent aircraft carriers to rattle KJU? They were sure it was WW3, and the nukes would end the world..

Then the freaked again when he was calling him little rocket man,,they knew for sure it make him drop a nuke on the U.S.A.

And all the other stuff they were so sure would make Kim retaliate ,, they were so sure

WRONG!!! Idiots, all of them....and they were just fine with the pasavist obama sending "strongly worded letters" to Kim...which just emboldened him to step up the nuke program

Now we have a guy, who will actually stand up to the nuke bully...and it's working

Kim is seeing the lite..trump is the only sitting president to ever meet with a nk leader in over 25 years...

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by j-c-c » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:48 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:42 am
Yeah, that's it; Trump conjured the whole thing up (a year in the making, btw) so he could deflect the media from a story that wasn't even out yet. He even went so far as to have the S. Koreans fly halfway around the world and give a statement on N. Korea at the White House to provide Trump cover.

You liberal nutjobs have lost your arguments and you've lost your minds.
You may think DT "conjures" up complex conspiracy plots, but I never even suggested that, but I do think DT is superb in pulling BS out of his butt on the fly, that serves his purpose of distraction better then any public figure in modern history. ( that is a very back handed compliment to be clear).

How or why he does is not crucial to my point, and you haven't disproved my supposition.

Keep name calling, I find it amusing when detractors are complacently misguided,
Last edited by j-c-c on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by j-c-c » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:51 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Now we have a guy, who will actually stand up to the nuke bully...and it's working
Since you seem to have it all figured out, please share with us then:

1. Define "working" in this context
2. Define the time frame you are using to define #1

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by Ratu » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:19 pm

Quoting, "Excellent news! The media had its hair on fire thinking Trump was driving us straight into war but he was driving Rocketman straight to the negotiating table."

It is exactly the other way around.

Kim has driven the US government to a realisation that its military is incapable of delivering the diplomatic, economic and political results it sought in Korea. As has been admitted by members of the Pentagon and the White House, "He's got us. There is no acceptable military solution." This is what impotence looks like (unless, of course it is considered acceptable the deaths of millions of people in yet another pointless war).

A war against North Korea would result in the destruction of South Korea as well as other horrible consequences such as a large number of US casualties (thousands), destruction in Japan, the loss of regional allies as other countries throughout the region witnessing the barbarous and unnecessary slaughter of Koreans turn towards China for regional stability and leadership (thus massively accelerating a process which has been but slowly progressing until the present), and the triggering of a massive international economic recession, depression even. Oh, all that and the likely deployment of nuclear weapons against the US mainland- do not forget about North Korea's nuclear deterrence. All in all, Kim's strategy has worked well for him so far. The US strategy not so much.

Notice that it was the South Korean government which entered into discussions with North Korea in spite of what the US government and military demanded. Seoul realised their interests and those of the US government (and the US military) differ considerably. They have started to act independently on matters of foreign policy- baby steps at first but important ones nevertheless. The US govt is being dragged along kicking and screaming. It has no real option but to join the negotiations (which is what Kim has consistently sought) else it begins to be publically recognised as a diplomatic irrelevancy to the two Koreas (sure it has a great military presence, but one that offers nothing constructive and one which is rapidly becoming an expensive obsolescence*, hence the growing threat of US diplomatic impotence).

President Trump has previously indicated that he would be prepared to meet with Kim. Here is his opportunity. Further, during his presidential campaign he gave indications that he was more comfortable with negotiation rather than starting yet more endless and expensive war boondoggles. Here is his chance to demonstrate his negotiating abilities and, indeed, his morality.

The longer the present situation continues, the worse it is for the USA and the better for China. China is a developing super-power. The USA as empire is in terminal decline. It is over-committed all over the world engaging in matters which are not its business to be engaged in. The longer this and interferences in other countries continue, the greater the threats of open war and blow-back to the US mainland. Best to de-escalate and reduce the risk. Here is a chance, at least in one region, to so do. It is time to exit the Korean peninsula and leave it for the people of Korea, the people who actually have skin in the game, the people who actually live there, the people whose homeland it is. The politics of Korea is the business of Korean people and not that of the US govt. anyhow.


*see President Putin's state of the nation address for further information in this regard. Basic conclusion is that carrier battle groups are as obsolete as the blunderbuss.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by dirtracr5 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:22 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm
Kim is seeing the lite..trump is the only sitting president to ever meet with a nk leader in over 25 years...
NK has offered many times with various president. Its been considered and declined. I have a feeling this will not take place as we've seen this pattern from NK and its may leaders before.

Either way I hope something comes from all of this. Diplomacy is always better than war. Especially nuclear war.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by rebelrouser » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:23 pm

I hope Trump can talk North Korea out of nuclear weapons, but Kim may be wanting a summit for political consumption in his own country

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/92 ... mysterious

Time will tell

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by gmrocket » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:05 am

j-c-c wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:51 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Now we have a guy, who will actually stand up to the nuke bully...and it's working
Since you seem to have it all figured out, please share with us then:

1. Define "working" in this context
2. Define the time frame you are using to define #1
When North Korea asks to meet with trump, I call that working... since it's a step in the right direction

If they stop blasting rockets over Japan and threatening the rest of the world,, I'll say it "worked"

Anything else?

Why is there a time frame? Did obama have one?

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by Ratu » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:50 am

Quoting, "If they stop blasting rockets over Japan and threatening the rest of the world,, I'll say it "worked"."

The idea that North Korea can launch a nuclear device at Japan or at the USA bugs you, doesn't it? Not to pick on you in particular, but had any of you considered the scenario the other way around? What about the perspective of other countries, ones which face exactly that same threat, but with the USA as the wielder of nuclear weapons etc and threatening to use them? THAT is what Kim faced and still faces. It is what motivated him and his government cronies to behave as they have done.

Kim is a ruthless man, a terror really. He is a survivor and he is not a fool. He was educated in the west and he knows exactly what he is up against. He also knows what happened to others in his position who gave up their nuclear weapons programs in the past (think on Libya and Iraq). He'll not give up his programs unless and until he judges he is secure and safe.

Understanding the motivations of those you are going to enter negotiations with is extremely important. Attempting to impose something one-sided or unilateral will not "work" since it will not address the interests (including the motivations) of the other.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by j-c-c » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 am

gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:05 am
j-c-c wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:51 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Now we have a guy, who will actually stand up to the nuke bully...and it's working
Since you seem to have it all figured out, please share with us then:

1. Define "working" in this context
2. Define the time frame you are using to define #1
When North Korea asks to meet with trump, I call that working... since it's a step in the right direction

If they stop blasting rockets over Japan and threatening the rest of the world,, I'll say it "worked"

Anything else?

Why is there a time frame? Did obama have one?
I believe the reporting NK 'asked" is false, as this story developed, therefore "working" would not apply on that point.

"direction" is another issue by itself, we can discuss separately.

The lack of test missile launches may be due to many factors, I suspect mostly due to the Winter Olympics, and the world public opinion that would impact with any missile launches nearby, NK is not stupid. NK's main beef is with DT not the entire rest of the world, so I can't again apply the "worked" label. Do I need to detail a long list of potential reasons no launches to make my case more credible, which of course I cannot prove a single causal relationship, and to the contrary, you will likely be unable to also disprove.

Timeline here is important, as things lately change on a news circle/morning tweet storm basis. Little is gained by the world by rushing to judgement, quite the opposite.
My timeline would stretch out for maybe 4? decades, or when rocketman leaves his position, then I would be willing to make a judgement of success.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by j-c-c » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:08 am

Ratu wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:19 pm

*see President Putin's state of the nation address for further information in this regard. Basic conclusion is that carrier battle groups are as obsolete as the blunderbuss.
Fighting the last war syndrome, and carriers are a lot of eggs in one nice big fat expensive basket.

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by pdq67 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 am

Everybody listen up!!

I'm gonna say this again so get ready to learn something important!

The good old USA does ONE thing better than any other country in the world!

Do you guys know what it is??

Once we are cranked up, we kick ass better than any country on Earth and don't you ever forget it!!

And just MAYBE you might have to die to keep the freedoms those old men way back in the American Revolutionary War (1775–1783) died for.

I for one am ready to destroy the EARTH if necessary to try to keep my FREEDOMS, are you??

Anybody here remember what Patrick Henry said??

Well, it was, "Give me liberty or give me death!!"...

From wiki:

"Give me liberty, or give me death!" is a quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Second Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia. He is credited with having swung the balance in convincing the convention to pass a resolution delivering Virginian troops for the Revolutionary War. Among the delegates to the convention were future U.S. Presidents Thomas Jefferson and George Washington."

And don't ever forget it!!

pdq67

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Re: Trump agrees to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: South Korean official

Post by RevTheory » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:03 am

You don't have a delegate go and ask the president of the United States to sit down and discuss denuclearization because you've got the US military backed into the corner with an unwinnable war. That defies logic. You come to the table because you're out of options.

N. Korea is on the verge of insolvency, the people are starving, the troops are starving, all they have is a bunch of antiquated Russian hardware- Rocketman knows he's done.

Trump has made it clear that we're not after regime change; just dismantle your nuke program and the sanctions will be lifted.

And no shit Paul, you don't dare mess with the US military. Too bad we have to play by the rules.

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