Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

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sanfordandson
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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:37 am

lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am


you are stupid arent you. i never said check out the israelis gun laws, i said they arm their teachers. its not the laws, its the fact the israeli's dont have a problem killing those that wish to cause them harm. quit your trolling you little pos! you have absolutely got to be about the most sick disgusting little ftard that has ever walked the face of the earth. all you care about is causing problems!
No need to get so upset. I was agreeing on what you said about Israel. But lets not focus on just teachers...shootings happen in churches, malls, concerts ect..

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by Ken0069 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm

lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am
you are stupid arent you. i never said check out the israelis gun laws, i said they arm their teachers. its not the laws, its the fact the israeli's dont have a problem killing those that wish to cause them harm. quit your trolling you little pos! you have absolutely got to be about the most sick disgusting little ftard that has ever walked the face of the earth. all you care about is causing problems!
lefty I'm going to offer you a solution to your problem with this (and the other) f...ing M0R0NS (trolls) here!

If you click on your username on the forum home page then go into the "User Control Panel" there is a tab in there called "Friends & Foes" where you can create a list of user names to add there and you won't see anything they post except when someone else quotes them in a post they make. For that problem I've even learned to look at WHO POSTS in any thread before reading to avoid most of the useless bullshit he and others on my list write here. That and I rarely post anything in any thread they may post either as ignoring them seems to be the best way to deal with them IMHO!

Check out the link below to see how many I have blocked here now. :wink: Then go start your own list!! =D>

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:27 pm

Ken0069 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am
you are stupid arent you. i never said check out the israelis gun laws, i said they arm their teachers. its not the laws, its the fact the israeli's dont have a problem killing those that wish to cause them harm. quit your trolling you little pos! you have absolutely got to be about the most sick disgusting little ftard that has ever walked the face of the earth. all you care about is causing problems!
lefty I'm going to offer you a solution to your problem with this (and the other) f...ing M0R0NS (trolls) here!

If you click on your username on the forum home page then go into the "User Control Panel" there is a tab in there called "Friends & Foes" where you can create a list of user names to add there and you won't see anything they post except when someone else quotes them in a post they make. For that problem I've even learned to look at WHO POSTS in any thread before reading to avoid most of the useless bullshit he and others on my list write here. That and I rarely post anything in any thread they may post either as ignoring them seems to be the best way to deal with them IMHO!

Check out the link below to see how many I have blocked here now. :wink: Then go start your own list!! =D>

The List Rev A =;
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This is an excellent idea for lefty. Blocking is what snowflakes do when it gets to deep for them. Seems to fit lefty perfectly! :lol: =D> :-({|=

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by lefty o » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:08 pm

there is no point in avoiding the sandytroll, her posts and antics help to reinforce what i am saying. if she didnt flip flop so damned fast some might not notice it as well, but with those antics you can cover every argument. so while i dislike the obnoxious troll, i just use her bs to my advantage.

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:21 pm

lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:08 pm
there is no point in avoiding the sandytroll, her posts and antics help to reinforce what i am saying. if she didnt flip flop so damned fast some might not notice it as well, but with those antics you can cover every argument. so while i dislike the obnoxious troll, i just use her bs to my advantage.
Don't be scared. We are know you are a snowflake like ken. Be the man your pretend to be. :lol:

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by lefty o » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:38 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:21 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:08 pm
there is no point in avoiding the sandytroll, her posts and antics help to reinforce what i am saying. if she didnt flip flop so damned fast some might not notice it as well, but with those antics you can cover every argument. so while i dislike the obnoxious troll, i just use her bs to my advantage.
Don't be scared. We are know you are a snowflake like ken. Be the man your pretend to be. :lol:
you really must enjoy making yourself look stupid!

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:15 pm

lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:38 pm
sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:21 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:08 pm
there is no point in avoiding the sandytroll, her posts and antics help to reinforce what i am saying. if she didnt flip flop so damned fast some might not notice it as well, but with those antics you can cover every argument. so while i dislike the obnoxious troll, i just use her bs to my advantage.
Don't be scared. We are know you are a snowflake like ken. Be the man your pretend to be. :lol:
you really must enjoy making yourself look stupid!
I hope you stay for the record. I enjoy when you post. :mrgreen:

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by j-c-c » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:52 pm

Ken0069 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am
you are stupid arent you. i never said check out the israelis gun laws, i said they arm their teachers. its not the laws, its the fact the israeli's dont have a problem killing those that wish to cause them harm. quit your trolling you little pos! you have absolutely got to be about the most sick disgusting little ftard that has ever walked the face of the earth. all you care about is causing problems!
lefty I'm going to offer you a solution to your problem with this (and the other) f...ing M0R0NS (trolls) here!

If you click on your username on the forum home page then go into the "User Control Panel" there is a tab in there called "Friends & Foes" where you can create a list of user names to add there and you won't see anything they post except when someone else quotes them in a post they make. For that problem I've even learned to look at WHO POSTS in any thread before reading to avoid most of the useless bullshit he and others on my list write here. That and I rarely post anything in any thread they may post either as ignoring them seems to be the best way to deal with them IMHO!

Check out the link below to see how many I have blocked here now. :wink: Then go start your own list!! =D>

The List Rev A =;
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"The following users are on my "Foe" list here on Speed Talk and I don't see what you/they post. rebelrouser, Statsystems, Fireonthemountain, Randy331,elle, Brian p, Firedome8, In-Tech, J-C-C, Keith Morganstein, MrBo, F-BIRD'88, Splitter, mk e, les327, sanfordandson, pdq67, joe 90, dirtracr5, kirkwoodken, nomad, jmarkaudio, Tuner, Speedbump, dragz, roadrunner, hoffman900, storm, DrillDawg, Stan Weiss, Warpspeed, midnightbluS10 and several others that don't normally post in this "Politics, Religion and Current Events" section.

There's a few on this list that got there by continually quoting some of the others on the list, not because I actually put them in the same category as the MORONS!

So if you're on "The List" and you respond to a post I make and you are looking for a reply/argument, it's highly likely you won't get one!

If I have you blocked and don't see what you post, IMHO you are:

A) a liberal/progressive/RINO
B) a flaming asshole
C) a Moron
D) all of the above
E) one who insists on quoting the aforementioned MORONS ad nauseam in your posts

If you don't like or disagree with the articles or links I post, then might I suggest that you either:

A) put me on your "Foe" list and block what I post so you don't see it! (preferred action)
B) contact the author/s of what I post and argue with them! (good luck with this one)

And a final note, I hate Democraps, Liberals, Progressives and yes, RINOs! ALL OF THEM, and I wouldn't piss on one of them if they were on fire! \:D/

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Ken0069 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am
you are stupid arent you. i never said check out the israelis gun laws, i said they arm their teachers. its not the laws, its the fact the israeli's dont have a problem killing those that wish to cause them harm. quit your trolling you little pos! you have absolutely got to be about the most sick disgusting little ftard that has ever walked the face of the earth. all you care about is causing problems!
lefty I'm going to offer you a solution to your problem with this (and the other) f...ing M0R0NS (trolls) here!

If you click on your username on the forum home page then go into the "User Control Panel" there is a tab in there called "Friends & Foes" where you can create a list of user names to add there and you won't see anything they post except when someone else quotes them in a post they make. For that problem I've even learned to look at WHO POSTS in any thread before reading to avoid most of the useless bullshit he and others on my list write here. That and I rarely post anything in any thread they may post either as ignoring them seems to be the best way to deal with them IMHO!

Check out the link below to see how many I have blocked here now. :wink: Then go start your own list!! =D>

The List Rev A =;
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The echo chamber is only a click away.

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by elle » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:32 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:56 pm
The logic and common sense of Dr. Redzus is nothing but hot air. He is incabable of computing even the most simple model; two intersecting curves that intersect at a certain point. The coordinates of that point are what he is worried about.
You have no idea what I am capable of, and I am not the least bit worried.
Because these are proving him and his "facts/propositions/statements" to be wrong. More guns equals more safety is proven wrong. Proven by himself.
Sheer nonsense. The facts speak otherwise. Those are not my facts but rather those used by law enforcement officials and the FBI. Where are your facts?
More guns equals more safety is not a useful model for a society with legal gun ownership at the current state of regulation.
More gibberish. Just what exactly does that mean? What is the current state of regulation? Where? Can you possibly try to write clearly instead of making silly, unsupported statements?
Why is it that the pro gun people are unwilling have a compromise between gun ownership itself and regulation / law?
Well that's simple. Gun ownership is a Constitutional right which shall not be infringed. Do you have any idea what that means? Secondly, gun usage, not gun ownership is the key determinant. Why is that so hard to understand?
y is it that the contra gun people are not willing to accept, that a major part of the society wants to own guns?
Because the issue has become politicized. A disarmed population is much more easily controlled; a fact proven throughout history. A state by state analysis of gun ownership vs armed crimes committed should settle the issue.

Our real problem is cultural. When a sitting President supports Black Lives Matter to encourage the killing of white police officers, our society is heading down the shittter. Since law enforcement has no legal mandate to prevent crime, the burden of self defense rests with the responsible armed citizen.
The KILLED kids in Florida high school haven't even had the chance to choose between those two positions.
Juveniles do not make those choices. Misguided adults make those choices. Broward County is heavily Democratic including elected officials. It was their responsibility to keep students safe; they failed miserably. Armed guards and a perimeter defense would have provided the time necessary to move kids to a secure area. The back of an open classroom is not a secure area.
=D>

Are you not willing or aren't you capable of doing the calculations I honestly asked you to do? And aren't you willing or capable of telling the whole world through this board, if the calculated numbers of yours are acceptable to you?

In case you will not show up with numbers, I can do the calculations for you if you like, and write them down here. Showing the world and your customers what you are capable of!

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:36 pm

elle wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:32 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:56 pm
The logic and common sense of Dr. Redzus is nothing but hot air. He is incabable of computing even the most simple model; two intersecting curves that intersect at a certain point. The coordinates of that point are what he is worried about.
You have no idea what I am capable of, and I am not the least bit worried.
Because these are proving him and his "facts/propositions/statements" to be wrong. More guns equals more safety is proven wrong. Proven by himself.
Sheer nonsense. The facts speak otherwise. Those are not my facts but rather those used by law enforcement officials and the FBI. Where are your facts?
More guns equals more safety is not a useful model for a society with legal gun ownership at the current state of regulation.
More gibberish. Just what exactly does that mean? What is the current state of regulation? Where? Can you possibly try to write clearly instead of making silly, unsupported statements?
Why is it that the pro gun people are unwilling have a compromise between gun ownership itself and regulation / law?
Well that's simple. Gun ownership is a Constitutional right which shall not be infringed. Do you have any idea what that means? Secondly, gun usage, not gun ownership is the key determinant. Why is that so hard to understand?
y is it that the contra gun people are not willing to accept, that a major part of the society wants to own guns?
Because the issue has become politicized. A disarmed population is much more easily controlled; a fact proven throughout history. A state by state analysis of gun ownership vs armed crimes committed should settle the issue.

Our real problem is cultural. When a sitting President supports Black Lives Matter to encourage the killing of white police officers, our society is heading down the shittter. Since law enforcement has no legal mandate to prevent crime, the burden of self defense rests with the responsible armed citizen.
The KILLED kids in Florida high school haven't even had the chance to choose between those two positions.
Juveniles do not make those choices. Misguided adults make those choices. Broward County is heavily Democratic including elected officials. It was their responsibility to keep students safe; they failed miserably. Armed guards and a perimeter defense would have provided the time necessary to move kids to a secure area. The back of an open classroom is not a secure area.
=D>

Are you not willing or aren't you capable of doing the calculations I honestly asked you to do? And aren't you willing or capable of telling the whole world through this board, if the calculated numbers of yours are acceptable to you?

In case you will not show up with numbers, I can do the calculations for you if you like, and write them down here. Showing the world and your customers what you are capable of!
He's so hyper-partisan it affects his math.... #-o

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm

Agenda 21 ---------------------------> No private ownership of guns. ----------> No private ownership of land / property.
So tell me all you lovers of losing something what all do you want to give up?

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:32 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm
Agenda 21 ---------------------------> No private ownership of guns. ----------> No private ownership of land / property.
So tell me all you lovers of losing something what all do you want to give up?
never gonna happen. Remove the tin foil hat and SLOWLY back away..... :lol:

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:46 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:32 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm
Agenda 21 ---------------------------> No private ownership of guns. ----------> No private ownership of land / property.
So tell me all you lovers of losing something what all do you want to give up?
never gonna happen. Remove the tin foil hat and SLOWLY back away..... :lol:
Its is slowly happening right in front of your face, you are blind to it.
And the United Nation's Agenda 21 is not a fake deal like you think it is, it is just too frightening to you to comprehend. Order your own copy of it from the UN.

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Re: Another mass shooting...this time a Florida school.

Post by David Redszus » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:48 pm

The issue had nothing to do with time; it had to do with the number of guns compared to the number of fatalities. The data clearly shows a decline in fatalities as a function of number of guns.
Please calculate the number of guns and the number of deaths that would be required to reach a ratio of zero at current rates / slopes.
Now we are playing silly math games which you use instead of a cogent argument. To reach a ratio of zero the number of fatalities would have to become zero or the number of guns would have to become infinite. Neither case is plausible.
It is commen sense to make predictions of future numbers with historical ones.
Now that is really, really silly. Ask any economist, investor, stock trader, if such a model makes any sense.
I asked you to apply the most simple model possible, assume that both rates will be as they were in near past. What numbers will that produce for your goal of a zero ratio -> zero fatalities per million guns which would prove your argument to be true, that more guns would mean more safety! And will these number, no. of guns and no. of fatalities, be acceptable to you?
You did not ask any such thing and if you had, I would have simply laughed at your ignorance. Zero fatalities per million guns is your goal, not mine. A simple slope indicates a trend but does not predict an end point. But you miss the point entirely with your juvenile antics.

The issue is not whether more guns cause more fatalities or not. The question should be whether more gun owners should be examined instead of number of guns. Further, we should ask about the nature of those gun owners; who are they? Are they hunters, ex-military or ghetto thugs? A gun collector who doubles his gun collection does not become twice as dangerous to society as does a single mentally perplexed individual who buys a gun on the black market or steals a single gun.

These gun issues and many more have been previously studied by folks without a socialistic axe to grind.


More Guns, Less Crime

is a book by John Lott that says violent crime rates go down when states pass "shall issue" concealed carry laws. He presents the results of his statistical analysis of crime data for every county in the United States during 29 years from 1977 to 2005. Each edition of the book was refereed by the University of Chicago Press. The book examines city, county and state level data from the entire United States and measures the impact of 13 different types of gun control laws on crime rates. The book expands on an earlier study published in 1997 by Lott and his co-author David Mustard in The Journal of Legal Studies[1] and by Lott and his co-author John Whitley in The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[2]

Below are summaries of the main topics discussed in More Guns, Less Crime.
Shall issue laws
Lott examines the effects of shall issue laws on violent crime across the United States.
His conclusion is that shall issue laws, which allow citizens to carry concealed weapons, steadily decrease violent crime. He explains that this result makes sense because criminals are deterred by the risk of attacking an armed victim. As more citizens arm themselves, the danger to criminals increases.

Training requirements
Lott examines the effects of training requirements on crime rate and accident rate. He finds that training requirements have very little effect on both crime rates and accident rates.

Waiting periods
Lott examines the effects of waiting periods. These include limiting the time before purchasing a gun, and limiting the time before obtaining a concealed carry permit.

Brady Law
Lott examines the effects of the Brady law.

"Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" Laws
The third edition of the book is the first study to examine Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrinelaws.

Other countries
The focus of the book is overwhelmingly on the US, but Lott does mention briefly gun ownership and crime rates in other countries, such as Great Britain, Ireland, and Jamaica, noting that murder rates rose after guns were banned. He also notes that many countries, such as Switzerland, Finland, New Zealand, and Israel, have high gun ownership rates and low crime rates, while many other countries have both low gun ownership rates and either high or low crime rates.

NRC Report
Partially in response to Lott's book, a sixteen-member panel of the United States National Research Council was convened to address the issue of whether right-to-carry laws influenced crime rate. They also looked at many other gun control measures, including the soon-to-expire 1994 Assault Weapon Ban, gun buy-backs, and bans on handgun possession or carry. In 2004 they issued the report "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review" which examined Lott's statistical methods in detail, including computation of the statistical uncertainties involved, and wrote:

The committee found that answers to some of the most pressing questions cannot be addressed with existing data and research methods, however well designed. Indeed, the committee was unable to find any of the laws that it examined had any effect on crime or suicide rates.

The issue of right-to-carry laws was the only law that drew a dissent from the committee's otherwise universal findings that it could not reach a conclusion. In a very unusual dissent for National Research Council reports, criminologist James Q. Wilson wrote that:

The direct evidence that such shooting sprees occur is nonexistent. The indirect evidence, as found in papers by Black and Nagin and Ayres and Donohue is controversial. Indeed, the Ayres and Donohue paper shows that there was a “statistically significant downward shift in the trend” of the murder rate. This suggests to me that for people interested in RTC laws, the best evidence we have is that they impose no costs but may confer benefits. . . . In sum, I find that the evidence presented by Lott and his supporters suggests that RTC laws do in fact help drive down the murder rate, though their effect on other crimes is ambiguous.

Support
A conference organized by the Center for Law, Economics, and Public Policy at Yale Law School and held at American Enterprise Institute was published in a special issue of The Journal of Law and Economics. Academics of all interests in the debate were invited to participate and provide refereed empirical research. As follows are some papers from that conference supported Lott's conclusions.
• Bruce L. Benson, Florida State University, and Brent D. Mast, American Enterprise Institute, "Privately Produced General Deterrence", The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[8]
• John R. Lott, Jr, "The Concealed-Handgun Debate," Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998.[9]
• Florenz Plassmann, State University of New York at Binghamton, and T. Nicolaus Tideman, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, "Does the right to carry concealed handguns deter countable crimes? Only a count analysis can say", The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[10]
• Carlisle E. Moody, College of William and Mary, "Testing for the effects of concealed weapons laws: Specification errors and robustness," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[11]
• David E. Olson, Loyola University Chicago, and Michael D. Maltz, University of Illinois at Chicago, "Right-to-carry concealed weapons laws and homicide in large U.S. counties: the effect on weapon types, victim characteristics, and victim-offender relationships," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[12] They found "a decrease in total homicides."
• David B. Mustard, University of Georgia, "The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[13]
• John R. Lott, Jr and John Whitley, "Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[2]
• T. B. Marvell, Justec Research, "The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001.[14] Marvell found evidence that right-to-carry laws reduced rape rates.
Other refereed empirical academic studies besides the original paper with David Mustard that have supported Lott's conclusions include the following.
• William Alan Bartley and Mark A. Cohen, Vanderbilt University, "The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis", Economic Inquiry, 1998.[15]
• Stephen G. Bronars, University of Texas, and John R. Lott, Jr., "Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns", American Economic Review, May 1998.[16]
• John R. Lott, Jr and John Whitley, University of Adelaide, "Abortion and Crime: Unwanted Children and Out-of-Wedlock Births," Economic Inquiry, April 2007.[17]
• John R. Lott, Jr and John Whitley, University of Adelaide, "A Note on the Use of County-Level UCR Data," Journal of Quantitative Criminology, October 2001.[18]
• Florenz Plassmann, State University of New York at Binghamton, and John Whitley, University of Adelaide, 'Confirming "More Guns, Less Crime"', Stanford Law Review, 2003.[19]
• Eric Helland, Claremont-McKenna College and Alexander Tabarrok, George Mason University, 'Using Placebo Laws to Test "More Guns, Less Crime",' The B.E. Journal of Economic Analysis & Policy, 2008.[20]
• Carlisle E. Moody, College of William and Mary, and Thomas B. Marvell, Justec Research, "The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws", Econ Journal Watch, 2008.[21]
• Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, “The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws," Econ Journal Watch, September 2008 [22]
• Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, “ On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation," Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, October 2010[23]
• Carlisle E. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante, “The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws," Review of Economics & Finance, 2014[24]
• Donald J. Lacombe and Amanda Ross, "Revisiting the Question 'More Guns, Less Crime?' New Estimates Using Spatial Econometric Techniques," Social Science Research Network, 2014.[25]
• Mark Gius, "An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates," Applied Economics Letters, 2014.[26]


Intellectually, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. :lol:

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