Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

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Firedome8
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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 pm

engineczar wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:43 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm
n2xlr8n wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:35 pm


Whatever; Invent, adopt or assimilate. It's incorrect to state the "Romans invented" Christianity, because it's simply not factual.
Could it be you are ignorant of history ? Eaver read Josephus ?
So what happened during the Crusades is relevant today? I heard the Vikings were pretty ruthless, does that make Norwegians a violent people?
Do you believe the bible stories ? If so it is still relevant. The crusaders helped set up conflicts that rage today. Imho....

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by David Redszus » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:47 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:24 pm
For the record, Jesus Christ, Paul (Saul) and Peter were all Jews, though Paul was a Roman citizen. The "Romans" crucified Jesus;
No, the Jews crucified Jesus, the Romans simply drove the nails at their insistence.
The Jewish high priests also persecuted early Christians who were abandoning the Jewish faith.
Saul worked for rome .
Saul was tried, convicted and executed by Rome. That's what good friends are for.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:47 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:24 pm
No, the Jews crucified Jesus, the Romans simply drove the nails at their insistence.
The Jewish high priests also persecuted early Christians who were abandoning the Jewish faith.
Saul worked for rome .
Saul was tried, convicted and executed by Rome. That's what good friends are for.
His usefulness ended.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by n2xlr8n » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 am

Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm
n2xlr8n wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:35 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:20 pm


Not adopt, invent .
Whatever; Invent, adopt or assimilate. It's incorrect to state the "Romans invented" Christianity, because it's simply not factual.
Could it be you are ignorant of history ? Eaver read Josephus ?
No, I couldn't.

The writings of Josephus are hotly debated (and man-inspired), and the Holy Bible is God-inspired.

You believe what you wish. Pearls to the swine.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by RevTheory » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:39 am

n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm
n2xlr8n wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:35 pm


Whatever; Invent, adopt or assimilate. It's incorrect to state the "Romans invented" Christianity, because it's simply not factual.
Could it be you are ignorant of history ? Eaver read Josephus ?
No, I couldn't.

The writings of Josephus are hotly debated (and man-inspired), and the Holy Bible is God-inspired.

You believe what you wish. Pearls to the swine.
This pops into my mind every time a thread goes this direction. I've made the mistake of getting into the pig pen with them before but I've done a pretty fair job of staying out over the last year or so.

One of those "knock the dust off your sandals" kind of deals.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:23 am

RevTheory wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:39 am
n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm


Could it be you are ignorant of history ? Eaver read Josephus ?
No, I couldn't.

The writings of Josephus are hotly debated (and man-inspired), and the Holy Bible is God-inspired.

You believe what you wish. Pearls to the swine.
This pops into my mind every time a thread goes this direction. I've made the mistake of getting into the pig pen with them before but I've done a pretty fair job of staying out over the last year or so.

One of those "knock the dust off your sandals" kind of deals.
Yea stay away from this debate if you do not want to take a logic enema, its easier to just avoid than to have to explain an unexplainable world view.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:28 am

n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm
n2xlr8n wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:35 pm


Whatever; Invent, adopt or assimilate. It's incorrect to state the "Romans invented" Christianity, because it's simply not factual.
Could it be you are ignorant of history ? Eaver read Josephus ?
No, I couldn't.

The writings of Josephus are hotly debated (and man-inspired), and the Holy Bible is God-inspired.

You believe what you wish. Pearls to the swine.
So Wtf does that mean ??? Oh you can't justify the dum Shi+ in your book and would rather wallow in ignorance and say stupid Shi× to just avoid it. If god inspired it it should be obvious to everyone.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by n2xlr8n » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:30 am

RevTheory wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:39 am
One of those "knock the dust off your sandals" kind of deals.

Yes, it is exactly that, thanks.

I was there- I understand; I was one of those "of science and facts".

2 Timothy 3:1-5 comes to mind also.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:48 am

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evangelical-support-for-donald-trump-11.jpg (95.77 KiB) Viewed 345 times

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:01 am

n2xlr8n wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:30 am
RevTheory wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:39 am
One of those "knock the dust off your sandals" kind of deals.

Yes, it is exactly that, thanks.

I was there- I understand; I was one of those "of science and facts".

2 Timothy 3:1-5 comes to mind also.
So what does pearls to swine mean ? Or is it just I give the fuc$ up ?? Go talk your stupid in a safe place ware no one asks questions.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:14 am

32_virgins_for_the_lord.jpg

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:24 am

Canaanite genocide in the Old Tetestamenti
I can’t help but remark, though, that I am a bit stunned by those who do not seem the slightest bit concerned about God ordering the Israelites to cleanse the land
First, until you are clear on what the motive is for God’s command to exterminate the Canaanites, you will not feel the true weight of the theological dilemma.


Second, if you are willing to accept Canaanite genocide as compatible with God’s character, to be consistent, you must also accept as compatible with God’s character other troubling issues that come up in those very same passages.

On the first point,

let’s be clear on the motive for why God wants the Canaanites annihilated. Look at Deut 7:1-7 and Deut 20:10-20. These are key marching order passages for what God wants the Israelites to do as they enter the land.

Note that in both passages, the reason given for showing “no mercy” (7:2) is not that the Canaanites are particularly bad people, far worse than any other nation (however true that might be). They are wiped out not because they deserve it more. The motive given in the texts is that any intermingling with the Canaanites runs the risk of turning “away your children from following me, to serve other gods” (7:4).

That is the reason. God want genocide of Canaan–including women and children–annihilated, so that there is no chance God’s people will be led astray (20:18-19).

This is no abstract matter of “sinfulness deserves punishment.” That is true, but that is not what is happening in these passages, and referring to Gen 15:16 does not make it so. There God says, rather cryptically, that the possession of the land by Abraham’s ancestors must wait 400 years after the exodus, “for the iniquity of the Amorites [Canaanites] is not yet complete.”

Whatever iniquity is building up for the Canaanites, surely its relevance to Canaanite genocide cannot be understood apart from the clear motives given in such places as Deuteronomy 7 and 20. Iniquity is not the reason for the extermination. All nations are iniquitous. The reason is that the iniquity will lead Israel into idolatry.

The Canaanites are wiped out because they occupy the land Yahweh means to give Israel, and sharing the land with Canaanites and their abhorrent religious practices runs the risk of luring the chosen people into spiritual adultery.

If we fail to take seriously the motive for the genocide, we will not be able to grasp or address the theological problem. Conversely, we cannot assign a false motive, even if it seems to make the theological problem a bit more manageable.

Let’s move on to the second point.

We see in Deut 20:10-20 that towns outside of Canaan are treated differently than Canaanite towns. Terms of peace are offered, which would enslave the population. If they refuse, the slavery option is off the table, and the Israelites are to kill the men but keep the women and children as slaves. They are “booty” and “spoil” that the victors are to “enjoy” (vv. 10-14).
Those who have no problem defending divinely commanded genocide as consistant with God’s character also need to incorporate forced enslavement into their argument.

If God’s sovereignty, righteousness, justice, and holiness justify the one, they must also justify the other.

Moving along, in Numbers 31, the Israelites go to war against the Midianites. The Israelites “killed every male” (v. 7) and “took the women of Midian and their little ones captive” along with livestock and property as “booty” (v. 9).

So far so bad, but there’s more (vv. 13-18). Moses was angry because the soldiers allowed the women to live. Yes, that is in keeping with God’s command to enslave non-Canaanite women, but these Midianite women lured the Israelite males into having [Blank Post] and worshipping Baal (see chapter 25). So, Moses commands that every woman who slept with an Israelite male be put to death.

Killing the seductress women, OK…let’s let that pass. But who else is executed? Every Midianite male “little one” (v. 17). Should this not make us a bit uncomfortable? Killing the male children presumably serves two purposes: to eradicate the Midianite line and eliminate any future military threat.

Of course, this is part and parcel of tribal cultures, but…why is God so comfortable participating in that culture instead of transforming it? What the Israelites do here is uncomfortably close to ethnic cleansing.

Midianite women led captive
The only ones who are spared are the young virgin girls, whom the Israelites are to divide evenly between the soldiers and the other Israelites (v. 18). Like the animals and property, the virgins are property to be divvied up.

There are 32,000 virgins in all. Of those 32,000, half went to the Israelites in general and the other half went to those who had actually been part of the battle.

From the soldier’s share, 32 were “Yahweh’s tribute” (v. 40), which in v. 41 is described as “the offering for Yahweh” given to Eleazar the priest, which could very well mean they became cultic slaves to help with the priestly duties, though that is not clear. Every 50th virgin from the other Israelites (320 in all) was given to the Levites in charge of the tabernacle, again perhaps to serve as slaves there.

Without giving ourselves up to wild speculation, what exactly do soldiers typically do with captive virgin women? And arguing that God would never allow “something like that” rings a bit hollow in light of what God does allow, which includes killing children and considering humans a spoil of war.

What complicates matter further is that treatment of virgins as property is not just a concession to war; it is part of the Law of Moses (Exod 22:16-17).

There are other factors we can throw into the mix, like: God hardening the hearts of the Canaanites so that they would fight and thus be “utterly destroyed, and might receive no mercy, but be exterminated” (Judg 11:20). But, this is already complicated enough.

After all that I guess wedding cakes are the theological argument of the day.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:02 pm

Didn't think so.

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by RevTheory » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:21 pm

I think most of us are sitting back and getting a kick out of you ranting post after post about shit you clearly don't understand. I sure am :D

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Re: Judge: Baker Can Refuse to Make Same-Sex Wedding Cakes

Post by Firedome8 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:27 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:21 pm
I think most of us are sitting back and getting a kick out of you ranting post after post about shit you clearly don't understand. I sure am :D
I understand that you do not understand.

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