Lybia Before and After

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GARY C
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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:48 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:43 pm
GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:32 pm
Your the one redefining it!
reminds me of a song I listened to in the 90's "Killing in the name of"

Applies to all religions including the cult you belong to. So try not to be so snowflake about it. [-X
No factual answer as always...only assumptions!

You should really try to educate your self so you at least know how to actually define something.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:54 pm

GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:48 pm
You should really try to educate your self so you at least know how to actually define something.
Naw i think we should just make stuff up as we go like you do. That way you are never wrong.

Dig into a little history. You be shocked to see what your ancestors did in the name of your cult.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:00 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:54 pm
GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:48 pm
You should really try to educate your self so you at least know how to actually define something.
Naw i think we should just make stuff up as we go like you do. That way you are never wrong.

Dig into a little history. You be shocked to see what your ancestors did in the name of your cult.
Why don't you show me?

I haven't made up one thing, everything you have said on this subject is factually incorrect and historically and biblicly provable!

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:14 pm

GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:00 pm
I haven't made up one thing, everything you have said on this subject is factually incorrect and historically and biblicly provable!
Prove it.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:14 pm
GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:00 pm
I haven't made up one thing, everything you have said on this subject is factually incorrect and historically and biblicly provable!
Prove it.
That's what I thought! You've got nothing, hence the selective quoting!
Here is one historian that was having to kill them because they were teaching that mean love and forgive message and they rfused to worship false idles or Roman religion.
Government Officials

Pliny the Younger. A Roman author and administrator who served as the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger was the nephew and adopted son of a natural historian known as Pliny the Elder. The younger Pliny is best known for his letters, and Bruce refers to him as “one of the world’s great letter writers, whose letters . . . have attained the status of literary classics.”(31)

Ten books of Pliny’s correspondence are extant today. The tenth book, written around 112 A.D., speaks about Christianity in the province of Bithynia and also provides some facts about Jesus.(32) Pliny found that the Christian influence was so strong that the pagan temples had been nearly deserted, pagan festivals severely decreased and the sacrificial animals had few buyers. Because of the inflexibility of the Christians and the emperor’s prohibition against political association, governor Pliny took action against the Christians. Yet, because he was unsure how to deal with believers, if there should be any distinctions in treatment or if repentance made any difference, he wrote to Emperor Trajan to explain his approach.

Pliny dealt personally with the Christians who were turned over to him. He interrogated them, inquiring if they were believers. If they answered in the affirmative he asked them two more times, under the threat of death. If they continued firm in their belief, he ordered them to be executed. Sometimes the punishment included torture to obtain desired information, as in the case of two female slaves who were deaconesses in the church. If the person was a Roman citizen, they were sent to the emperor in Rome for trial. If they denied being Christians or had disavowed their faith in the past, they “repeated after me an invocation to the Gods, and offered adoration . . . to your [Trajan’s] image.” Afterwards they “finally cursed Christ.” Pliny explained that his purpose in all this was that “multitudes may be reclaimed from error.”(33)

Since Pliny’s letter is rather lengthy, we will quote the portion which pertains directly to an account of early Christian worship of Christ:

They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food — but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.(34)

At this point Pliny adds that Christianity attracted persons of all societal ranks, all ages, both sexes and from both the city and the country.

From Pliny’s letter we find several more facts about Jesus and early Christianity. (1) Christ was worshiped as deity by early believers. (2) Pliny refers late in his letter to the teachings of Jesus and his followers as “excessive superstition” and “contagious superstition,” which is reminiscent of the words of both Tacitus and Suetonius. (3) Jesus’ ethical teachings are reflected in the oath taken by Christians never to be guilty of a number of sins mentioned in the letter. (4) We find a probable reference to Christ’s institution of communion and the Christian celebration of the “love feast” in Pliny’s remark about their regathering to partake of ordinary food. The reference here alludes to the accusation on the part of non Christians that believers were suspected of ritual murder and drinking of blood during these meetings, again confirming our view that communion is the subject to which Pliny is referring. (5) There is also a possible reference to Sunday worship in Pliny’s statement that Christians met “on a certain day.”

Concerning early Christianity, (6) we see Pliny’s method of dealing with believers, from their identification, to their interrogation, to their execution. For those who denied being Christians, worship of the gods and the emperor gained them their freedom. (7) Interestingly, Pliny reports that true believers could not be forced to worship the gods or the emperor. (8) Christian worship involved a pre dawn service, (9) which included singing hymns. The early time probably facilitated a normal working day. (10) These Christians apparently formed a typical cross section of society in Bithynia, since they were of all classes, ages, localities and of both sexes. (11) There were recognized positions in the church, as illustrated by the mention of the two female deaconesses who were tortured for information. While Pliny does not relate many facts about Jesus, he does provide a look at a very early example of Christian worship. Believers were meeting regularly and worshiping Jesus.

Emperor Trajan. Pliny’s inquiry received a reply which is published along with his letters, although Emperor Trajan’s response is much shorter:

The method you have pursued, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those denounced to you as Christians is extremely proper. It is not possible to lay down any general rule which can be applied as the fixed standard in all cases of this nature. No search should be made fore these people; when they are denounced and found guilty they must be punished; with the restriction, however, that when the party denies himself to be a Christian, and shall give proof that he is not (that is, by adoring our Gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have formerly incurred suspicion. Informations without the accuser’s name subscribed must not be admitted in evidence against anyone, as it is introducing a very dangerous precedent, and by no means agreeable to the spirit of the age.(35)

Trajan responds that Pliny was generally correct in his actions. If confessed Christians persist in their faith, they must be punished. However, three restrictions are placed on Pliny. (1) Christians should not be sought out or tracked down. (2) Repentance coupled with worship of the gods sufficed to clear a person. Pliny expressed doubts as to whether a person should be punished in spite of repentance and only recounts the pardoning of persons who had willingly given up their beliefs prior to questioning. (3) Pliny was not to honor any lists of Christians which were given to him if the accuser did not name himself.

These conditions imposed by emperor Trajan give us some insight into early official Roman views about Christianity. While persecution was certainly an issue and many Christians died without committing any actual crimes, it is interesting that, contrary to popular opinion, the first century was not the worst period of persecution for believers. Trajan’s restrictions on Pliny at least indicate that it was not a wholesale slaughter. Nonetheless, the persecution was real and many died for their faith.

Emperor Trajan. The existence of trials for Christians, such as the ones held in the time of Pliny, is confirmed by another historical reference to Christians. Serenius Granianus, proconsul of Asia, wrote to emperor Hadrian (117 138 A.D.), also in reference to the treatment of believers. Hadrian replied to Minucius Fundanus, the successor as Asian proconsul and issued a statement against those who would accuse Christians falsely or without due process. In the letter, preserved by third century church Historian Eusebius, Hadrian asserts:

I do not wish, therefore, that the matter should be passed by without examination, so that these men may neither be harassed, nor opportunity of malicious proceedings be offered to informers. If, therefore, the provincials can clearly evince their charges against the Christians, so as to answer before the tribunal, let them pursue this course only, but not by mere petitions, and mere outcries against the Christians. For it is far more proper, if any one would bring an accusation, that you should examine it.(36)

Hadrian explains that, if Christians are found guilty, after an examination, they should be judged “according to the heinousness of the crime.” Yet, if the accusers were only slandering the believers, then those who inaccurately made the charges were to be punished.(37)

From Hadrian’s letter we again ascertain (1) that Christians were frequently reported as lawbreakers in Asia and were punished in various ways. (2) Like Trajan, Hadrian also encouraged a certain amount of temperance, and ordered that Christians not be harassed. (3) If Christians were indeed guilty, as indicated by careful examination, punishments could well be in order. (4) However, no undocumented charges were to be brought against believers and those engaged in such were to be punished themselves.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:34 pm

Sounds like it was "all in the name of" Just like Islam does.

One in the same...

sorry that your cult is no better. [-o<

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:39 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:34 pm
Sounds like it was "all in the name of" Just like Islam does.

One in the same...

sorry that your cult is no better. [-o<
Like usual you still got nothin!

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pm

GARY C wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:39 pm
sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:34 pm
Sounds like it was "all in the name of" Just like Islam does.

One in the same...

sorry that your cult is no better. [-o<
Like usual you still got nothin!
You need to do better. You give nothing you get nothing.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by David Redszus » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am

World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am
World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.
Define Christian?

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by David Redszus » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:43 am

GARY C wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 am
David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am
World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.
Define Christian?
Why?

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:49 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:43 am
GARY C wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 am
David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am
World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.
Define Christian?
Why?
Why not?

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by joe 90 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:25 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am
World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.

If you look into WW1 deep enough.........it's all about the Zionist Jews.
They'd already done a deal with the British and American governments , they wanted a Jewish state. The ottoman empire had to be destroyed first.
After WW1 the whole of the middle east was carved up and set up as puppet states by the winners.
That's when mass migration by Jews to the then Palestine started.
Then WW2 came along , just to speed up the whole process.
Look at all the civil wars and unrest in the middle east since then?


China?
The Japs were fighting against China in the 1930s.
Supported by US of A......Japan's backer supplying what was required.....until it was stopped.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by GARY C » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:35 am

joe 90 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:25 am
David Redszus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 am
World War One was fought primarily between Christian European nations and resulted in about 35 million dead.

Except for China, World War Two was also fought mostly between Christian European nations and resulted in about 85 million dead.

The crusades were fought in the "Holy Land" and not the British Isles.

God fearing, religiously persecuted American colonists showed their appreciation of their freedom in the new land by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of American Indians.

The Spanish Catholics did the same in South America and California.

It's a good thing these were God fearing, moral, honorable Christians or else the death toll would have been even higher.

If you look into WW1 deep enough.........it's all about the Zionist Jews.
They'd already done a deal with the British and American governments , they wanted a Jewish state. The ottoman empire had to be destroyed first.
After WW1 the whole of the middle east was carved up and set up as puppet states by the winners.
That's when mass migration by Jews to the then Palestine started.
Then WW2 came along , just to speed up the whole process.
Look at all the civil wars and unrest in the middle east since then?


China?
The Japs were fighting against China in the 1930s.
Supported by US of A......Japan's backer supplying what was required.....until it was stopped.
Very possibly fixing to the the same against Iran with the recent alliance with Saudi Arabia, Israel and the US.

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Re: Lybia Before and After

Post by exhaustgases » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:31 am

sanfordandson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:29 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:20 pm
over the course of written history, christians have killed plenty!
Yep! =D>

All in the name of "god"..
All in the name of Demo c rat globalist and their climate religion, they also what those same photos to apply here as well.
All Demo c rat presidents from Kennedy to Obum, yes the supposed repubs were demos in repub clothes, all maintained the status quo. Didn't Bushes vote for Hi larry?

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